WGME CBS13 / FOX23
Same questions, same format. A flag is about the language, not whether an answer was true or which candidate is right. Speakers are identified from the broadcast captions and checked by a person.
Factual claims each candidate made in their own words, looked up in fact-checkers, primary sources and wire reporting, as of the debate date. A verdict that a claim is wrong or misleading is shown only when it cites an established fact-checker or an independent primary source, and its confidence is not low.
“I voted against President Trump's signature legislative accomplishment, the one big beautiful bill.”
Checked as: Susan Collins voted against the One Big Beautiful Bill (Trump's signature legislative accomplishment). Supported by factcheck.afp.com
source ↗Confidence: high
“it did cut the Medicaid program.”
Checked as: The One Big Beautiful Bill Act cut the Medicaid program. True, but missing context: The White House characterizes the changes as protecting Medicaid by removing ineligible recipients, not cutting it, and FactCheck.org rated "the largest Medicaid cut in history" as false, meaning the nature and scale of the cuts are disputed.
source ↗Confidence: medium“Fact-check by FactCheck.org: rated "Misleading" the claim: “There are no Medicaid cuts in the Big Beautiful Bill. ... We’re reducing fraud, waste and abuse that is rampant in Medicaid to ensure that that program is essential for so many people, ensure that it’s available for the most vulnerable.””
“We passed a new law in Congress that prevents private equity from buying up the single family housing.”
Checked as: Congress passed a law that prevents private equity from buying up single-family housing. Supported by banking.senate.gov
source ↗Confidence: high
“Medicaid rates are set by the state.”
Supported by bls.gov
source ↗Confidence: high
“Medicare rates are set by the federal government.”
Supported by oig.justice.gov
source ↗Confidence: high
“I oppose President Biden's action taken on his second day in office to cancel the Keystone Pipeline, which would have brought oil from Canada to the United States.”
Checked as: President Biden cancelled the Keystone Pipeline on his second day in office, and the pipeline would have brought oil from Canada to the United States. True, but missing context: Biden cancelled the Keystone XL pipeline on his first day in office (January 20, 2021), not his second day.
source ↗Confidence: high“U.S. President Joe Biden's Jan. 20, 2021, executive order to halt construction of the Keystone XL pipeline”
“the law that restored earned Social Security benefits for teachers, police officers, and firefighters.”
Checked as: A law was enacted that restored earned Social Security benefits for teachers, police officers, and firefighters. Supported by carbajal.house.gov
source ↗Confidence: high
No fact-checker, primary source or wire report we search addressed these. That says nothing about whether they are true.
“he overturned Roe.”
Checked as: The Supreme Court overturned Roe v. Wade. Supported by www.factcheck.org
source ↗Confidence: high
“Senator Collins just brought up how the reimbursement rates are not high. She's been in Congress for 30 years. She touts how she's chair of Appropriations.”
Checked as: Senator Collins has been in Congress for 30 years and is chair of Appropriations. True, but missing context: Collins was first elected in 1996, making her tenure approximately 30 years as of 2026, but the evidence does not directly state "30 years in Congress."
source ↗Confidence: high“As the Chair of the Senate Appropriations Committee, Senator Susan Collins employs her influence, seniority, and experience to benefit the people of Maine and America.”
“Susan Collins is the chair of Appropriations.”
Checked as: Susan Collins is the chair of the Senate Appropriations Committee. Supported by appropriations.senate.gov
source ↗Confidence: high
“a 26-year-old man that had a three-year-old daughter”
Checked as: Johan Sebastián Durán Guerrero was 26 years old and had a three-year-old daughter. True, but missing context: Multiple sources, including an AP wire report and Wikipedia, report his age as 25, not 26, and no source in the evidence specifies his daughter's age as three.
source ↗Confidence: medium“ICE Fatally Shoots 26-Year-Old Man in Deadly Traffic Incident in Maine”
No fact-checker, primary source or wire report we search addressed these. That says nothing about whether they are true.
Susan Collins
My parents taught me to keep my word and to serve. Those values still guide me today. Effective leadership matters in Washington.
Glittering Generalities The phrase invokes vague positive concepts like 'effective leadership' without specifying what that means or how it would be achieved — for example: Effective leadership matters in Washington
Susan Collins
Those are all due to Augusta's failed policies under the failed leadership of Troy Jackson.
Loaded Language The word 'failed' is used twice in an emotionally charged way to discredit both the policies and the leader without providing evidence — for example: 'failed policies under the failed leadership'
Repetition The word 'failed' is deliberately repeated within a single short sentence to reinforce a negative impression through familiarity rather than argument — for example: "Augusta's failed policies under the failed leadership of Troy Jackson".
Scapegoating All unspecified problems are attributed solely to one individual's leadership, oversimplifying complex issues by placing full blame on a single person — for example: 'all due to Augusta's failed policies under the failed leadership of Troy Jackson'
Troy Jackson
And why? So that she could give her billionaire funders another tax break. I mean, that's why that bill is crucifying Maine.
Conspiracy Appeal Implies a hidden, self-serving motive behind the bill — that it exists solely to benefit shadowy 'billionaire funders' rather than any stated public purpose — for example: "give her billionaire funders another tax break".
Loaded Language The term 'billionaire funders' is emotionally charged, designed to trigger resentment and distrust rather than convey neutral factual information — for example: billionaire funders and crucifying Maine.
Exaggeration/Hyperbole Describing a tax bill as 'crucifying' an entire state is a gross overstatement that goes well beyond what evidence could support — for example: that bill is crucifying Maine
Troy Jackson
Yeah, well, Senator Collins is like an arsonist who helped set the fire, and then she wants credit for bringing a cup of water to put it out. I mean, she advanced the bill out of committee. You just heard her say if she had stopped it, she wouldn't be able to do the other things, meaning that she could have stopped it.
Name Calling Senator Collins is compared to an arsonist, a derogatory label used to discredit her rather than address her arguments — for example: Senator Collins is like an arsonist who helped set the fire.
Loaded Language The metaphor of arson and fire is emotionally charged language designed to trigger a negative reaction toward Senator Collins rather than convey neutral facts — for example: arsonist who helped set the fire.
Repetition Repeats key words or phrases to hammer ideas into the audience and make them seem more credible through familiarity — for example: "she" ×3.
Susan Collins
I've worked very closely with the university. We advanced that proposal. The head of Navitek at the time, unfortunately, was a crook.
Name Calling The head of Navitek is labeled a 'crook' — a derogatory term used to discredit the individual rather than provide substantiated evidence of wrongdoing — for example: "was a crook".
Troy Jackson
They had emails, they know about meetings, they got a check obviously, a great big check for $150,000. A pay to play scheme involving her office and our taxpayer dollars. And then whenever President Trump came back, his administration dismantled the investigation.
Loaded Language The phrase 'a great big check' uses emotionally charged, colloquial language to dramatize the amount and imply corruption — for example: a great big check for $150,000 and pay to play scheme.
Appeal to Prejudice The phrase 'our taxpayer dollars' invokes in-group identity to stoke outrage by framing the alleged wrongdoing as a personal affront to the audience — for example: 'our taxpayer dollars'
Conspiracy Appeal The claim that Trump's administration 'dismantled the investigation' implies a hidden, coordinated effort to suppress accountability, suggesting shadowy interference — for example: 'his administration dismantled the investigation'
Troy Jackson
You know what's an unavoidable death? Is being able to go into the hospital and get service and not know that you're going to go bankrupt because the healthcare industry is trying to rook you out of everything that you have. That is what Senator Collins wants to keep going.
Appeal to Fear The rhetorical question frames the topic in terms of unavoidable death, priming the audience with fear before the argument is made — for example: unavoidable death and go bankrupt because the healthcare industry is trying to rook you out of everything that you have.
Loaded Language The phrase 'rook you out of everything that you have' uses emotionally charged language implying deliberate predatory theft by the healthcare industry — for example: 'rook you out of everything that you have'
Name Calling Senator Collins is implicitly labeled as an enabler of predatory industry practices without substantive argument, functioning as a discrediting label — for example: 'That is what Senator Collins wants to keep going'
Troy Jackson
Big health insurance, big pharma, so that they can make all the money. It's about greed. We can do Medicare for all when we start prioritizing where we're spending our money, not in a forever wars, not in ICE, not in all these different things that were, and not big tax cuts for the wealthiest people, for the Elon Musk that makes sure that they dump money back into this state to support Senator Collins.
Name Calling The labels 'Big health insurance' and 'big pharma' are used as derogatory shorthand to discredit entire industries rather than address specific arguments — for example: 'Big health insurance, big pharma'
Loaded Language The phrase 'make all the money' is emotionally charged, implying unlimited, illegitimate profit-taking to trigger resentment — for example: make all the money, greed and forever wars.
Scapegoating Elon Musk is singled out by name as a shadowy financial actor corrupting the political process, blaming one individual for complex campaign finance dynamics — for example: 'for the Elon Musk that makes sure that they dump money back into this state'
Conspiracy Appeal The claim implies a hidden coordinated scheme where wealthy elites funnel money to politicians to maintain power, suggesting sinister behind-the-scenes coordination — for example: 'dump money back into this state to support Senator Collins'
Card Stacking The sentence lists multiple spending priorities to oppose (wars, ICE, tax cuts) while presenting Medicare for All as straightforwardly achievable, omitting counterarguments about cost or feasibility — for example: 'We can do Medicare for all when we start prioritizing where we're spending our money'
Troy Jackson
Look, I got Republicans, Democrats, Independents all across the state that are supporting my campaign because they know that healthcare is out of control and it gets worse when people like Senator Collins vote with Donald Trump 96% of the time, putting forward the big beautiful bill, advancing the big beautiful bill so that People like Elon Musk can get more tax cuts. I mean, we're losing our health care in Maine because we needed to make sure, she needed to make sure, that Elon Musk and billionaires got more money. That's where our money's going in this health care debacle.
Bandwagon Appeal Claims broad cross-partisan support to imply the candidate's position is universally correct — for example: "Republicans, Democrats, Independents all across the state that are supporting my campaign".
Loaded Language Uses emotionally charged phrase 'out of control' to trigger alarm about healthcare — for example: healthcare is out of control and this health care debacle.
Scapegoating Blames Senator Collins and Elon Musk specifically for the complex healthcare problem — for example: it gets worse when people like Senator Collins vote with Donald Trump 96% of the time.
Repetition The phrase 'big beautiful bill' is repeated twice in close succession as a rhetorical device — for example: 'putting forward the big beautiful bill, advancing the big beautiful bill'
Appeal to Fear Warns that Maine residents are actively losing healthcare to provoke anxiety — for example: 'we're losing our health care in Maine'
Troy Jackson
And she just let it die with the big beautiful bill. I mean, we lost all those subsidies. And she's the team player that the Republicans wanted to make sure they got it out and took all that health care away from people.
Loaded Language The phrase 'big beautiful bill' uses emotionally charged, sarcastic or ironic positive language to characterize legislation in a rhetorically loaded way — for example: big beautiful bill and took all that health care away from people.
Appeal to Fear The claim that Republicans 'took all that health care away from people' is framed to provoke anxiety about loss of essential services, implying dire consequences for ordinary people — for example: 'took all that health care away from people'
Troy Jackson
People are having universal health care, Medicare for all. And we can do that as soon as we quit wasting money on forever wars like Senator Collins wants.
Loaded Language Emotionally charged words chosen to trigger a reaction rather than convey facts. — for example: forever wars.
Name Calling Derogatory labels used to discredit a person or group rather than address their arguments. — for example: like Senator Collins wants.
Black-and-White Fallacy The sentence implies a binary choice: either stop military spending or forgo universal health care, ignoring other budgetary options or funding mechanisms — for example: 'we can do that as soon as we quit wasting money on forever wars'
Troy Jackson
electricity driving fuel rates i mean this is not going to stop in a state like maine with you know farming fishing and forestry these people are going to lose their businesses they're going to lose their homes and it's all because senator collins wouldn't push back against donald trump in another forever war that no one including herself knows what we're doing oh
Appeal to Fear The sentence predicts catastrophic economic losses for Maine residents — losing businesses and homes — to provoke fear and anxiety about inaction — for example: 'these people are going to lose their businesses they're going to lose their homes'
Scapegoating The sentence places the entire blame for rising fuel rates and economic hardship on Senator Collins's failure to oppose Trump, ignoring other complex economic factors — for example: 'it's all because senator collins wouldn't push back against donald trump'
Loaded Language The phrase 'forever war' is an emotionally charged term designed to evoke frustration and futility rather than convey a neutral factual description — for example: 'another forever war that no one including herself knows what we're doing'
Troy Jackson
And everyone knows that they are legitimate law enforcement. Right now what we have is a rogue agency that are pushed by Donald Trump to go after black and brown people in this country. And we saw what their training was.
Bandwagon Appeal The phrase 'everyone knows' implies universal agreement to pressure acceptance of the claim without evidence — for example: everyone knows that they are legitimate law enforcement.
Loaded Language The word 'rogue' is emotionally charged and used to delegitimize the agency rather than describe it factually — for example: a rogue agency that are pushed by Donald Trump.
Scapegoating Donald Trump is singled out as the sole driver of alleged targeting of a racial group, reducing a complex institutional issue to one person's influence — for example: pushed by Donald Trump to go after black and brown people.
Appeal to Prejudice The framing invokes racial in-group/out-group identity by specifying 'black and brown people' as the targeted group, appealing to racial solidarity and fear — for example: go after black and brown people in this country.
Conspiracy Appeal Hidden plots, secret coordination, or shadowy actors invoked to explain away evidence.
Troy Jackson
They murdered a man in Biddeford. It's just clear as that. I don't need an Inspector General report.
Loaded Language The word 'murdered' is a legally and emotionally charged term that presupposes guilt and intent before any investigation or legal finding — for example: They murdered a man in Biddeford.
Name Calling Derogatory labels used to discredit a person or group rather than address their arguments.
Card Stacking Dismissing the need for an official investigative report implies the conclusion is already settled, selectively ignoring the role of due process and evidence gathering — for example: 'I don't need an Inspector General report'
Troy Jackson
You can see it with your own eyes and Senator Collins should be able to see that with her own eyes too. You don't put more money into an agency that is killing people across this country.
Loaded Language Emotionally charged words chosen to trigger a reaction rather than convey facts. — for example: killing people across this country.
Exaggeration/Hyperbole Describing an agency as 'killing people across this country' is a sweeping overstatement that presents a complex policy dispute in absolute, catastrophic terms — for example: 'killing people across this country'
Troy Jackson
Well, that's not true. What I said is I didn't want any more offensive weapons going to murder people in Palestine. And Netanyahu was a war criminal, but Senator Collins likes him.
Loaded Language The word 'murder' is emotionally charged and chosen to trigger a strong reaction rather than neutrally describe military operations — for example: 'murder people in Palestine'
Name Calling Labeling Netanyahu a 'war criminal' is a derogatory label used to discredit him rather than engage with specific arguments or legal findings — for example: 'Netanyahu was a war criminal'
From the AI transcript of the broadcast; highlighted answers are where the model found a technique.
Other
Tonight voters are watching and getting ready to decide. Well the average price of heating oil in Maine has hit a new record high. And there's a lot on people's minds. President Trump says he's considering a major attack on Iran. From trouble overseas to trouble at home with years of higher costs squeezing families and businesses struggling to keep up. Rising fuel costs are are making that difficult. Enter Maine's U.S. Senate race. Two candidates with two different visions for Maine and the nation debating for the first time. She's not willing to go up against Donald Trump. From key policy issues to important questions about character and who's best to lead. I work and I show up.
Moderator
It's a race with national implications getting national attention. It's a fight for Maine's future and the nation's. It's Maine's U.S. Senate debate and it all starts right now. Hello and welcome to what we're sure is going to be an informative evening. I'm Greg Lagerquist and we are joined of course by the candidates in their very first debate, Republican incumbent Susan Collins and Democratic challenger Troy Jackson. First and foremost, a warm welcome to you both. All right, over the next hour or so, they're gonna be debating a lot of different issues, issues that of course matter to you. Each is gonna have a chance to answer each question starting with one minute each, followed by rebuttal and discussion time. Now it is our format to encourage that discussion to really get at their differences. Now at one point each candidate will also have a chance to ask each other a question. and time permitting, we do also plan to get to a lightning round near the end of the debate. Now, before we got to the debate tonight, we had a random coin flip to determine where exactly they would stand and the order in which they would offer their opening and closing statements. We did that last night. And with that, let us begin our debate formally. Senator Susan Collins, you have one minute. The floor is yours.
Susan Collins
Thank you. Good evening. Growing up in Aroostook County, I learned the value of hard work picking potatoes. My parents taught me to keep my word and to serve. Those values still guide me today. Effective leadership matters in Washington. As chair of the Senate Appropriations Committee, I've been able to bring home federal dollars to help ease the burden on our taxpayers. In the past five years, I've secured $1.5 billion for 672 projects, from Mattawaska to Kittery, from Eastport to Rumford. These are investments in our communities: fire stations, affordable housing, better roads, bridges, cleaner water, childcare, workforce training, and assistance for our rural hospitals. Representing you is an honor. You work hard and I work hard every day for you.
Moderator
Thank you so much. And Troy Jackson, you have one minute as well. The floor is yours.
Troy Jackson
Well, tonight is about who you stand with when it matters. You know, eight years ago today, Maine woman went to D.C. and begged Senator Collins not to confirm Brett Kavanaugh. But she did it anyways, even though they begged her. He helped overturn Roe versus Wade. And today she says she has no regrets. And I would, you know, wonder for everyone, including myself, would you trust her to pick the next Supreme Court Justice? Look, I'm Troy Jackson. I'm a working class manor from Allagash. I got into politics because working people were being pushed around. People with power and influence were holding us back. And as Senate President, I did fight like hell to protect abortion care. I made sure that we had lower prescription drugs. I went after health care. I made sure the kids at school got to eat for free. Senator Collins has had 30 years to show whose side she's on. I don't know Donald Trump and the billionaires anything. I don't fight for billionaires like she does. I owe Mainers everything, and that's who I'm going to be fighting for when I'm the next U.S. Senator.
Moderator
All right, thank you very much. That concludes our opening statement, so let's get into some topics right now. Let's start with people's wallets. Gas prices are up. Diesel hit a record high recently. Mortgage rates are rising. Many people are nervous, and frankly, many are ticked off at this point. Each of you has given at least part of the blame for this to the other, whether for policies in Washington or policies in Augusta. So let's get to it. What is your view on the economy? And why should voters trust you to be the one to help them? And begin with our alternating format. We're going to begin this question with Senator Susan Collins.
Susan Collins
Well, Maine families are struggling and that's why I've been working so hard to lower energy costs, to decrease the costs of prescription drugs by putting a $35 a month cap on the cost of insulin and speed the approval of lower cost generic drugs. And I have worked consistently to try to make housing more affordable. If you look at the policies that have driven up the cost of living in Maine, you have to look at Augusta. Maine has the fourth highest electricity rates in the country. It has some of the highest housing costs in the entire country. It has extraordinarily high property taxes. Those are all due to Augusta's failed policies under the failed leadership of Troy Jackson.
Moderator
Thank you very much. And Troy Jackson, you have one minute as well for your response to the question about the economy and why voters should trust you.
Troy Jackson
Well, I mean, I think it's pretty clear that what we're seeing right now with affordability issues is, you know, because of Senator Collins not being willing to stand up to Donald Trump, voting with him 96% of the time. I mean, she advanced the big bad bill out of committee. You know, her colleagues call her a team player. I mean, that bill right there cost $3 billion to the state of Maine. It's cutting SNAP benefits. It's cutting heating benefits. And why? So that she could give her billionaire funders another tax break. I mean, that's why that bill is crucifying Maine. Also, Iran war. I mean, Senator Collins would not push back against that five times she voted for it. I mean, the reason why our fuel price is going through the roof and the reason why our electricity costs are going through the roof is because the cost of fuel, cost of oil is so high because she wouldn't stop... President Trump with the Iran war. Tariffs, another thing that as chair of appropriations, she could have done more to stop, but now we have prices all across the state, fuel prices, wood going to Canada, everything that we're buying, tourism, all because of the tariffs. Senator Cox, would you like to respond?
Susan Collins
I would like to give a rebuttal to that. It's so disappointing to hear Troy so misrepresent the facts. He knows that I voted against President Trump's signature legislative accomplishment, the one big beautiful bill. I voted against it because it did cut the Medicaid program. But if I had not allowed the bill to go to the floor, I would never have been able to author the $50 billion fund to help rural health care. That is so important to the state of Maine. There are other provisions of that bill that keep taxes lower for middle income taxpayers. and that is important as well and he knows very well that i proposed paying for the rural health care fund by by increasing the cost on everyone who attacks us for people making over $250,000 a year. And let's direct a response to Senator Jackson.
Troy Jackson
Yeah, well, Senator Collins is like an arsonist who helped set the fire, and then she wants credit for bringing a cup of water to put it out. I mean, she advanced the bill out of committee. You just heard her say if she had stopped it, she wouldn't be able to do the other things, meaning that she could have stopped it. That's exactly the point. I mean, all of her Republican colleagues called her a team player. She stood with Donald Trump. whenever he wanted that. 96% of the time she votes with him. We're not going to have any rural health care left because of the $3 billion in cuts that we're going to be having. I mean, what she brought back is a pittance to what we're losing in this state. I mean, we're watching our health care system crash right in front of us.
Moderator
And Senator Jackson, did you want to respond to something she said? I'll direct to back over here, Senator, in a moment. But did you want to respond to what she said about that Augusta policies are driving these costs, the fourth highest energy cost, for example, in the nation, and pointing directly to the fact you were state Senate president for a period of that time?
Troy Jackson
Well, it's like I said, I mean, when fuel prices blow up like they have because she won't push back against the Iran war, obviously our electric rates are going to be a lot higher. And that's what something we've been trying to do here in Maine, get off of fossil fuel, get into clean energy so we won't be subject to this boom and bust of what we're seeing. But electric rates are high because of fuel rates, because of natural gas, and those are all policies that in D.C. they have messed up and made it harder for Mainers to actually be able to afford.
Moderator
A quick response.
Susan Collins
Very quick. But the public advocate... said that the bill that Troy voted against would have saved $275 a year for the average homeowner on the electric bill. And the big beautiful bill did not come out of the Appropriations Committee. It did not go through our committee. at all, so that too is not accurate. And it is so frustrating to hear these falsehoods repeated time and time again.
Moderator
- And we'll get a chance to have more from you, Senator Jackson, but I want to direct it to sort of the next topic, but it segues out of what we've been talking about, and that's housing. We just had a recent Pew survey that found 89% of young people think that buying a home for their generation is more expensive than their parents' generation, And the numbers show they're right. Speaking specifically to young people about housing affordability, and again, feel free to respond to some of the other things as well, Senator Jackson. We do begin with you. What do you say about housing?
Troy Jackson
- Well, it's no doubt that housing is, you know, we're out of control. And, you know, a big part of that is because private equity has come into Maine, bought up, you know, apartment buildings, bought up homes. and are charging incredible prices. They've bought up mobile home parks and driving lot rates insane. I do think that we have to go after private equity and make it so that they can't buy these things and charge outrageous prices. But we also have to, as a state, put more money into creating housing, building more housing, I mean, one of the things I do very much appreciate at the University of Maine at Orono is how there are 3D printing homes there. I think that's a real piece to let older people probably downsize in their home and create more stock in the economy. But, you know, then they'll have a good place that they can afford to move into. But I mean, we definitely have to make sure that private equity quits driving this rate and we have to do more for property taxes, too.
Moderator
And Senator Collins on housing.
Susan Collins
We passed a new law in Congress that prevents private equity from buying up the single family housing. So what Troy just called for has already been done in Washington. But what we do need is permitting reform. so that we can build more affordable housing more quickly and at a lower cost. I can't tell you how many home builders have told me of extraordinarily long delays that they have encountered. In addition, through my position on appropriations, I have been able to help finance affordable housing, two projects in the city of Bath so that BIW workers don't have to travel so far. housing projects also in Lewiston and one for seniors in Calais among many others.
Moderator
All right thank you Senator. George, I actually like your response.
Troy Jackson
Yeah well I mean I've funded all kinds of projects for housing too. I mean honestly that's what an appropriations chair should be doing but but the reality is what Senator Collins just talked about how they passed the law. Well look I mean we're in a a Congress right now that's totally given up their authority to President Trump. I mean, there's all kinds of laws that he's not following, and Senator Collins is not forcing him to follow those laws. That's the reality is that private equity, if that law has passed, private equity is still buying up things in Maine. Everyone knows that. They're buying up things all across Maine. So either her law didn't pass or it isn't working very well, and that, too, is part of the problem. So I definitely see this as something that we need to put more... opportunity into more help but we're not doing enough to stop private equity and I got a pretty good reason why Senator Collins is not enforcing that because Donald Trump doesn't want her to. Quick rebuttal.
Susan Collins
This is a bill that was authored by Senators Tim Scott and Elizabeth Warren and it did pass It became law and it does prohibit private equity from doing what Troy says is still going on. That is just not accurate. But we do need to do so much more to make housing affordable and that is what I have been doing. I do need to respond to something that... that Troy has said twice now. He has said that I vote with President Trump 95% of the time. He is using a study that looked at only 30% of the votes. If you look at the study that looked at 90% of the vote, you will find that drops to 72%. When President Biden was in office, I voted with him 92% of the time. So this is greatly misleading to keep quoting this study that only looked at a third of the votes rather than 90% of the vote. But here's the most important part. Very quickly, please, Senator. This study found that I voted against my party more than any other senator on either side of the aisle.
Moderator
I need to move on. Thank you, Senator. Troy Jackson, you have a chance to respond, please.
Troy Jackson
Well... I mean, it's the Bangor Daily that came out with the report, the 96%. I mean, there's a whole bunch of other people that put it at 95% or 94%, whatever. It's far too often. And what I was saying was that if the law passed, just like most things in Congress, they're not putting any teeth into enforcing it because private equity is still buying up places here in Maine. without the law or with the law. And that is the problem is that we have too many people that are getting rich off other people suffering in this state and we have to do more about it. - We're gonna move on, but Senator Collins, I do wanna ask, we've heard Donald Trump's name several times here. So let me ask you directly, President Trump this week said that he might actually visit Maine. Will you stand with him if he does?
Susan Collins
I don't think that President Trump is going to come to Maine. He's talking about going to a lot of different states. I've heard nothing from his office. And I'm not exactly his favorite Senator, I think...
Moderator
So yes or no? Do you have a yes or no to that?
Susan Collins
I would say that he is not coming to me.
Moderator
Okay, fair enough. I'd like to move on. Our next topic is about leadership and character. Specifically, we've all heard it, right? Around accusations leveled against both of your campaigns. Senator Collins, you've been strongly rejecting claims that your 2020 campaign was involved in a type of bribery scheme with a now convicted defense contractor, including some more strong denials that came out from your campaign today. Senator Jackson, you've been accused of abusing your power when you were the state senate president to help out your family, including a lobbyist's son. By all indications, voters are paying attention to this and they have a lot of questions. Let's take some time now for both of you to discuss these controversies and respond to them how you wish. I'm certainly gonna leave the question open-ended. I believe based on our format, we're gonna begin with Susan Collins.
Susan Collins
Well, first of all, let me say, Greg, that these allegations are completely false, and they are very offensive. The University of Maine came to me with a proposal in 2017 that was in conjunction with a company called Navitek, which had been around since 1978 and did engineering and technology work research. It came forward with a proposal that was one of the university's top priorities. I've worked very closely with the university. We advanced that proposal. The head of Navitek at the time, unfortunately, was a crook. He is now in jail where he belongs. He said that he could not get a meeting with me unless he made a political contribution. We have a picture. showing him meeting with me to discuss the university's plan with him that took place months before there was ever a contribution.
Moderator
And I know you want to keep talking more about this, but let's turn to Troy Jackson again. Would you like to respond to that, or would you like to respond to the controversies in the political ads that have been targeting your campaign?
Troy Jackson
- Yeah, well, I mean, my son didn't do anything wrong. Independent fact checkers have proven that time and time again that there was nothing there. But what we do know about Navitek is that as late as 2024, the FBI was circling around Senator Collins. They had emails, they know about meetings, they got a check obviously, a great big check for $150,000. A pay to play scheme involving her office and our taxpayer dollars. And then whenever President Trump came back, his administration dismantled the investigation. Now she votes with Donald Trump 96% of the time. Look, I don't owe Trump. I don't owe the billionaires nothing. In fact, I've spent my life fighting back against billionaires, but I do owe the people of Maine everything. I refuse corporate PAC money. I want to ban congressional stock trading. I fight for working Mainers every day. I'm not taking money from corporations like Senator Collins does. You know, in this country, politicians are bought and paid for. And the people that I know don't have enough money to buy them back. That's why I'm fighting for them.
Moderator
Quick, before I get to you. Go ahead, Senator.
Susan Collins
I have to respond to that. First of all, these allegations were thoroughly investigated by the Biden Department of Justice, the Federal Election Commission, the FBI. All of them said they were utterly false. with regard to my staff or me. This is so outrageous. Later, when the head of the company, Martin Kao, was trying to get his sentence reduced, he spun this elaborate tale. It was rejected not only by the prosecutor, but by the judge. Now, I think that Troy has a lot to answer for on a mortgage that he got for an FHA loan in which he said that his Augusta house was going to be his primary residence. You can only get this kind of loan if it's for your primary residence. How can he have a primary residence in Allagash, for which he was reimbursed $160,000 for travel back and forth, and have a primary residence in Augusta?
Moderator
Let's get an answer to that directly. Senator Jackson.
Troy Jackson
I mean, just like every other legislator in Rooster County, I'm a long ways away from home. My home is in Allagash, but I showed up every day to work. I made all my votes too, and I had to have a place in Augusta. In the past, I've had hotel rooms, I've had apartments. We had a house and the FHA loan says that they understand that majority of the year is what primary residence is. I was in the house five days a week and I went home on the weekend just like every other time, just like every other legislator. So I'm not gonna apologize for standing up and fighting for my constituents because that's what I did.
Moderator
- I do wanna move on. I know we could obviously keep talking about this. I do wanna move on. We now come to that point in the debate in fact, Maybe we'll continue to talk about this because this is a point where each candidate gets a chance to ask the other one a question. No limits here, by the way, except a reminder to the candidates, please briefly set up your question, but then get to the actual question. Don't give a speech sort of disguised as a question. With that, let's begin with Troy Jackson. You have one minute or less than to turn your question and ask.
Troy Jackson
Well I think it's very appropriate today. You know, eight years ago today, Maine women, I know many of them came to your office and begged you not to confirm Brett Kavanaugh, but you did it anyways. And then he overturned Roe. And you still say that you don't regret that vote. So I guess what I'm curious about is what will it take for you to admit that you were wrong? You know, especially whenever Kavanaugh went out and did what he did. I mean, and you don't regret that today. So what will it take for you to admit that you're ever wrong?
Susan Collins
Well, first of all, when I evaluate Supreme Court justice nominees, I always look at their qualifications, their experience, whether they're fit to serve on the court. As Ruth Bader Ginsburg, the famous justice, said, it would be inappropriate and violate the impartiality of a judge for any nominee to predict how he or she would vote on any issue. I clearly don't agree with how Brett Kavanaugh voted on Roe v. Wade. I agree with many of the other justices whom I voted also to confirm who did vote to uphold Roe v. Wade. In fact, I am the only Republican senator to have voted for Justice Sotomayor, Kagan, and Jackson, who were nominated by a Democratic senator. So I would point out that there's only one of us on this stage who has always been pro-choice, and that's me. And Senator, quick follow-up. You reported that you did have a chance to interview Brett Kavanaugh before his nominating vote. You said at the time that he said that he considered Roe v. Wade settled law. Do you feel at any level that Brett Kavanaugh lied to you on that day? I do not feel that he lied, but I think that he should not have said it was settled law, because to me that meant that it would not be overturned. But to be fair, you cannot ask a nominee how he might vote on some hypothetical future case. But I would point out that it is Troy who, until 2013, supported such extreme positions that he would not allow for exceptions for a woman to have an abortion, even if her life were at stake or in cases of rape and incest.
Moderator
Is that going to be your question to him? Otherwise, I'm going to give him a chance to respond to that. Go ahead, sir.
Troy Jackson
Well, again, I don't think she answered the question. I mean, what would it take for her to admit that she was wrong? I mean, she just said that she doesn't regret that, and I just think that that's, you know, unbelievable in light of what happened. I mean... Brett Kavanaugh was against abortion when she met with him. She knew that was going to happen. And now, after it's been overturned, she doesn't regret the vote. I mean, everybody else in Maine and across this country regrets her vote. I just think it's uncredible that she will not admit to being wrong.
Moderator
All right, let's move on. Senator Collins, you have a chance to ask Troy Jackson a question at this point.
Susan Collins
Sure. Thank you. Troy, you've served in Augusta for more than 20 years. When you ran for governor this year, you said that one of the main reasons you were running is even though you were Senate president, it was frustrating to try to get bills passed. You said that Governor Mills vetoed 40 of your bills. and that Governor LePage vetoed 60 of them. But your trouble in getting bills passed goes far beyond that. In your more than 20 years in the legislature, more than one-third of your bills were unanimously rejected in committee. You couldn't even find one Democrat on the committee to support a third of your bills. If you can't find one person in your own party to vote for your bills when you were the Senate president in Maine, how do you think you're going to get things done in a closely divided Senate as the most junior senator?
Troy Jackson
Well again, now Senator Collins doesn't understand the legislative process. I mean we have a system here in Maine where joint committees and things like that and having one person vote for a bill is useless. I mean it actually gums the system up. In a system where Republicans and Democrats get to hear their bills, get to hear them on the floor unlike Congress, having one or two people vote for a bill that's not gonna make it. And the other thing about that too is multiple people put in the same bill. I am a team player. I let other people go forward with bills because I felt it was more important for them to get the recognition than me. you know, but Senator Collins saying that she's been passing a lot of bills in Congress, I mean, I don't see it. I mean, and I certainly don't think that, you know, a lot of the ones that she has been fighting for has been helping us. Things like the big bill for Bill, Iran. I mean, those are things that are actually hurting people in Maine, and I wish Senator Collins would, you know, just do nothing at all.
Moderator
- Let's move on if we can, please. Let's turn to healthcare. In fact, recent polls find that voters list health care, the cost, the access among their top concerns. Senator Jackson, you support Medicare for All. Senator Collins, you've said that's way too expensive. Describe your plan for improving access to health care and why you believe you're right and they're wrong, starting with Senator Collins.
Susan Collins
Well, first of all, there is no one who has worked harder for rural health care than I have. Whether it's the $50 billion fund to help rural hospitals and rural clinics, or the work that I've done to support training programs for nurses all over the state, or helping to get equipment for our rural hospitals. And that has included three new emergency rooms in Bridgeton, in Rumford, in Millinocket. That has made a big difference. What we don't need is for big government to take over health care, to abolish private insurance that people such as the workers at Bath Iron work, are happy with and that have led to avoidable deaths, 16,000 in England alone because they couldn't get care.
Moderator
- All right, thank you very much. Troy Jackson, same question to you. Healthcare, your plan, why yours is better? -
Troy Jackson
Well, Senator Collins has been a government employee her entire life. She's always had healthcare, she's always had a steady income coming in. That's not the way it is for most of us. I mean, healthcare is a real challenge, and she's made it worse by advancing the big beautiful bill. I mean, we're losing $3 billion. We're watching birthing centers close, Waterville Hospital close, I mean, nursing homes closing. And why? Because the federal government, with her and Donald Trump, is making it harder for people. And yes, I do support Medicare for all. You know what's an unavoidable death? Is being able to go into the hospital and get service and not know that you're going to go bankrupt because the healthcare industry is trying to rook you out of everything that you have. That is what Senator Collins wants to keep going. Big health insurance, big pharma, so that they can make all the money. It's about greed. We can do Medicare for all when we start prioritizing where we're spending our money, not in a forever wars, not in ICE, not in all these different things that were, and not big tax cuts for the wealthiest people, for the Elon Musk that makes sure that they dump money back into this state to support Senator Collins. That is what's happening in our government. We're wasting our money instead of putting it into healthcare for people to actually have better lives. -
Susan Collins
First of all, I have not been insured my whole life. I spent a year when I was running for governor in 1994 where I could not afford health insurance. So Troy, you're just out now wrong on that. But that's not really the issue here. The real issue is access to affordable health care. We need more health care providers in Maine. And that's why I've been working with Senator Hassan of New Hampshire to have more residency programs, to train people to be able, family docs to be able to deliver babies, for example, and general surgeons as well. I've worked hard to lower the cost of prescription drugs by accelerating the approval of lower cost generics. And there is no one who's been a bigger supporter of medical research than I have. I've opposed the administration's proposal to slash medical research because we need those cures and effective treatments.
Moderator
I want to give the last word to Senator Jackson. I do want to ask, though, as well, Medicare for All obviously has been associated nationally with the Democratic Socialists of America, one of the key policy platforms. You've said you don't identify with a label on this, but 39 percent of Americans polled, I believe actually Mainers polled in a recent poll, have an unfavorable view of socialism. Can you clarify, are you a member of the DSA? Is that why you support Medicare for All, just so voters are clear on where you stand?
Troy Jackson
I support Medicare for all so that people that I know across the state have health care. I mean it's the worst thing in the world for somebody to lay there at night and not know what's happening to them, what's not, what is happening, the pain in their chest, and be afraid to go and get the services that they need because they know they can't afford it. And they can't afford the drugs that, you know, big farmers charge. Look, I got Republicans, Democrats, Independents all across the state that are supporting my campaign because they know that healthcare is out of control and it gets worse when people like Senator Collins vote with Donald Trump 96% of the time, putting forward the big beautiful bill, advancing the big beautiful bill so that People like Elon Musk can get more tax cuts. I mean, we're losing our health care in Maine because we needed to make sure, she needed to make sure, that Elon Musk and billionaires got more money. That's where our money's going in this health care debacle. And so, no, I mean, I want health care because I believe that everyone should be able to be healthy and know that they can go into the doctor and see them when they don't feel well and not end up in bankruptcy because of it.
Susan Collins
Greg, I have to respond to that because it's just not true. I have never voted to cut the Medicaid program. Never. I have never voted to cut Medicare. I voted to expand the Medicare program so that it would cover more services. What what Troy is proposing is for big government to take over the entire health care service. I don't think that works well. I also would mention that I was a decisive vote to retain the Affordable Care Act.
Moderator
We've got to move on.
Troy Jackson
And she just let it die with the big beautiful bill. I mean, we lost all those subsidies. And she's the team player that the Republicans wanted to make sure they got it out and took all that health care away from people. So it's not big government. I mean, we're watching it in Canada. We're watching it all across the country. People are having universal health care, Medicare for all. And we can do that as soon as we quit wasting money on forever wars like Senator Collins wants.
Moderator
We're repeating the same point. So I do want to move on at this point. Let's talk next about recent allegations of fraud in federally funded programs, both in Maine and beyond. We've all seen the headlines, the allegations. claiming widespread Medicaid fraud or even mismanagement in programs like Maine's autism program. What's your answer to voter concerns about fraud right now? Do you think it's a problem? How big do you think it is and what would you do about it? And I believe based on our alternating format, we begin with Senator Jackson.
Troy Jackson
Well, surely taxpayer money is always needed to be taken care of, spent wisely. You know, I mean, I'm not in the administration, so I don't know exactly what has been happening there. But if there's fraud, then we want to make sure it stops. I mean, that's something that I feel very strongly about. But, you know, having people come from D.C. just to score political points, I I don't agree with, let's have an independent investigation go in and find out for sure. And if there is people that are bilking the system, which I don't know, I'm not saying there isn't, let's make sure that we stop it because that is taxpayer money and we need it more than ever because we're spending or we're losing so much money because of the big bogus bill that we need that money for healthcare in Maine. -
Moderator
Thank you so much. One minute to you, Senator Collins. -
Susan Collins
First of all, Fraud is a terrible problem in our health care programs, in Medicare and Medicaid. And it was under the Biden administration that there was an independent investigation. by the Inspector General that found $42 million in improper payments and fraud in Maine's Medicaid program. And there's been much more uncovered since that. And Troy did nothing about that. nothing that's money that's needed by our nursing homes our hospitals we are the state that does not reimburse hospitals sufficiently to cover care under the medicaid program that is a terrible problem and for there to be no oversight of the Medicaid program to make sure this fraud is identified, prevented, and stopped is inexcusable. -
Moderator
Chancellor Rubut, Senator Jackson. -
Troy Jackson
Yeah, well, I mean, I think it's interesting that Senator Collins just brought up how the reimbursement rates are not high. She's been in Congress for 30 years. She touts how she's chair of Appropriations. Yeah, it would be great if she actually worked on that and got that done because we're not getting enough reimbursement. But as far as the Medicare fraud, I mean, that report she's talking about, found it in Indiana, found it in a whole bunch of states. I'm not, yeah, we want to make sure that we root that out. I agree 100%. I appreciate that, and I appreciate State Auditor Matt Dunlap coming forward with that too. You know, so the fraud needs to be stopped, and I'm certainly supportive of that.
Moderator
I'd like to go ahead. Last word, please.
Susan Collins
Medicaid rates are set by the state. They are not set by the federal government. Medicare rates are set by the federal government. So it is Augusta that is responsible for the inadequate reimbursements under the Medicaid program. The federal government puts in money as well, but it is a joint program.
Troy Jackson
The rates that the hospitals aren't getting to actually serve people on Medicaid and Medicare are things that the federal government does the reimbursement rates. There's other states that are higher than Maine. Susan Collins is the chair of Appropriations. It would be nice if she got us up to those other states.
Susan Collins
The Appropriations Committee has no jurisdiction over Medicare or Medicaid, just as at the record. They just control the money. The state does have jurisdiction over the Medicaid rates and could raise them to cover the costs.
Moderator
I'd like to move on. Let's move on. We talked about gas prices earlier. Let's turn to one thing economists agree is driving up fuel prices, and that's conflict overseas, especially right now in Iran. Senator Collins, you've said the war should not continue without congressional authorization, which so far has obviously not happened yet. And yet, Senator Jackson, you have blamed... Senator Collins for her votes and her actions in, for example, the Appropriations Committee for enabling the war. Okay, who's telling the truth here? Let's start with Senator Collins.
Susan Collins
Well, first of all, under the War Powers Act, the president as commander-in-chief has 60 days in which he can take action. After those 60 days, the conflict should not continue unless it is authorized by Congress. I have voted nine times to end the war in Iran. I think that it is not well thought out. It has caused adverse circumstances in terms of the cost of global oil. But here's what I have done. I have been working with the Secretary of Energy on his plan to get our European allies to reduce to give to the United States access to 50 million barrels of crude oil, 50 million barrels of diesel, which would help lower the cost. And that is one step that we can take right now. But in the end, we have to become energy independent. And that is so important. And it's why I oppose President Biden's action taken on his second day in office to cancel the Keystone Pipeline, which would have brought oil from Canada to the United States. I don't know whether that was something that Troy supported or not.
Moderator
All right. Senator Jackson, you have a chance. First of all, the original question around the war and your belief that she has helped to enable that. And if you'd like to respond to your... thoughts on the Keystone XL pipeline?
Troy Jackson
Well I don't know how we become more energy dependent by going to another country to get more oil. I mean look, Senator Collins threw Maine in a hole and she threw us a short rope with this 100 million barrel deal. I mean how long is that going to last? Not very long. I mean as far as the Iran war, which is the driver in heating prices going up 80% You know, diesel prices paying close to $7 a gallon. You know, she voted for that five times before she started voting against it. By that time, we're already into it. And we're in another forever war that you just heard her say. It's not well thought out. We don't know what we're doing. But she made sure that it happened five times when she could have stopped it. I'm not going to write another blank check to any president, Democrat or Republican. What I believe here in Maine is what we were trying to do to try and get us off of fossil fuel. I passed a bill to create a transmission line to Rooster County so we get that green energy wind, create those jobs. I passed bills to make sure that offshore wind would not be in the fishing areas in Maine. President Trump stopped that, but the way to get back off this boom and bust is actually have green energy that actually we can afford and actually make ourselves a real player here in New England.
Moderator
I'd like to move on. Go ahead, last word, please.
Susan Collins
Again, I would point out that Maine has the highest electric rates the fourth highest in the country that is not due to policies in washington that is due to how troy has voted in augusta and it's a real hardship to people who are trying to heat their homes with heat pumps or need, we all need electricity.
Moderator
Do you want to respond?
Troy Jackson
Yeah, well, I mean, it's totally inaccurate. I mean, Russia, Ukraine drove natural gas prices. Now Iran is driving the rates of... electricity driving fuel rates i mean this is not going to stop in a state like maine with you know farming fishing and forestry these people are going to lose their businesses they're going to lose their homes and it's all because senator collins wouldn't push back against donald trump in another forever war that no one including herself knows what we're doing oh
Moderator
we've heard those talking points already so i'm going to move on if we can next we want to turn to immigration and ice Controlling illegal immigration was a major promise of then-candidate Donald Trump, and polls suggest a big reason why he was reelected. But a recent Fox News poll found that 60 percent of Republicans surveyed believe that ICE has gone too far. Please tell us your views on abolishing versus reforming ICE and immigration and why. We begin with Senator Troy Jackson. The floor is yours for one minute, please.
Troy Jackson
- Well, I mean, I think it's important for us to understand that, you know, Johan Guerrero was murdered in the streets of Biddeford by ICE agents. for doing nothing wrong. I mean, a 26-year-old man that had a three-year-old daughter, and what did he do wrong? He get up and went to work that morning for somebody here in Maine. That, as a working-class person, I know exactly what it's like to leave your house on a Monday morning and go to work, and that man did nothing wrong, and he's not here now because Senator Collins would not push back against ICE. I do not believe that what ICE is doing is actually helping protect us. I think it's hurting the state. I'm 100% for stopping sex trafficking, stopping drug running, things like that. We used to do that with Cousins Border Patrol. I worked in the woods. I'd see Cousins Border Patrol all the time doing things like that. But $70 billion after Joe... She doesn't regret spending for somebody that got murdered, and we've seen it in other states too. And it's time that ICE is disbanded, and we go back to putting that money in the Customs and Border Patrol. They have training. They're law enforcement. People respect them. We don't respect ICE. Senator Collins.
Susan Collins
The shooting of Mr. Joran Gojero was horrific, and it demonstrates that ICE needs further reform. We funded body cameras, body-worn cameras. We increased the budget of the Inspector General, who is independent. The entire main delegation joined together to ask for a full impartial investigation by the IG. And I also put in further money for training of ICE enforcement officers. It needs serious reforms, which unfortunately the Democrats blocked. However, You cannot abolish ICE. It does need reform. But do you really want to abolish an agency that is responsible for deporting violent criminals, such as the member of the Venezuelan cartel that killed the nursing student, that is responsible for investigations of child exploitation, drug smuggling, international cartels? international financial scams that recently broke up, a child pornography ring right here in the state of Maine. It needs reform not to be abolished. And $70 billion is not correct. It's about half that amount. over four years. You keep saying $70 billion. Part of that money went to Customs and Border Protection.
Moderator
And not to ICE. So, your response?
Troy Jackson
$70, $35, I mean, in Senator Collins' world, that's not money that is wasted. That's exactly the point. I mean, look, she just said it about... sex trafficking and stuff like that. I've talked to Customs and Border Patrol agents that were working on those things. That's who used to do that. And everyone knows that they are legitimate law enforcement. Right now what we have is a rogue agency that are pushed by Donald Trump to go after black and brown people in this country. And we saw what their training was. They murdered a man in Biddeford. It's just clear as that. I don't need an Inspector General report. You can see it with your own eyes and Senator Collins should be able to see that with her own eyes too. You don't put more money into an agency that is killing people across this country.
Moderator
And I want to extend to Senator Collins, but for a specific reason, you mentioned that you wanted the IG. You asked the IG to investigate. To your knowledge, is there a federal investigation into the death of Duran Guerrero?
Susan Collins
The Inspector General is investigating. And Senator King and I also wrote to the state, to the attorney general, to ask for permission for the state attorney general's office to be involved in the investigation, which is unusual. But we wanted to make sure that we had thorough investigations of this tragic death.
Moderator
- Well certainly a lot of people watching to see what comes out of any investigation going on. Let's move on, let's turn to tariffs. A lot of Mainers on both sides of the aisle do not support widespread tariffs, especially against our neighbors in Canada. What is your stance on tariffs and the trade war with Canada? We'll start with Senator Susan Cohen.
Susan Collins
- I have been the most outspoken opponent opponent of the tariffs with Canada. Canada is not China. It is our neighbor, our friend, our closest ally, and our biggest trading partner. So I have been strongly voting against the tariffs with Canada, but I've also been working behind the scenes. Troy mocked it, but I was successful in getting concrete, pulp, and road salt removed from the tariff list. And if you ask towns in northern Maine and eastern Maine, they get all. all of their road salt from Canada. The small town of Frenchville with 900 people would have to pay $10,000 more this winter had I not been successful. A businessman in Waldo County who's in the concrete business would have faced $150,000 more a month. And I'm not finished. I'm still fighting for more OF A REDUCTION IN THE TERRORISTS.
Moderator
SENATOR JACKSON, SAME QUESTION TO YOU.
Troy Jackson
MAINERS CAN'T AFFORD TO PAY THEIR BILLS WITH A PRESS RELEASE. strongly worded letter like Senator Collins keeps talking about. I didn't mock the fact that she got road salt back, I mocked the fact that what about everything else? I mean we can't eat road salt and and the thing about it is is that everything that she's doing with Iran war and stuff like that there's gonna be so many less people they'll be able to afford to drive that I'm not even sure the road salt is gonna be worth anything either. We have a country right now all across the northern border that are having trade wars with canada for absolutely no reason than donald trump senator collins put lutnick on knowing full well that he wanted blanket tariffs and that's what we have now and she won't use her authority as chair of appropriations to actually push i mean there is ways i've appointed appropriations chairs there are ways to get your leverage things to make this happen. I'm not going to give her credit for getting one thing back when we have thousands of things that people are having to pay more money for because she won't let Donald Trump, she won't talk back against Donald Trump. And tariffs are a function of Congress, not the function of the president.
Moderator
chance to respond?
Susan Collins
Well, first of all, I have been successful in getting a rollback of some of the tariffs. I'm continuing to work on this. It's very important. Like many people in Averusta County, I have a Canadian sister-in-law that is very common. Canada is our friend. It should be treated as such. There is one area that I've discussed with the Canadian ambassador where Canada needs to do better, and that is it needs to remove barriers to our dairy products. But we should go back to the negotiating table, and I don't want to see these tariffs. It's not -- and it's something I'm continuing to work on.
Moderator
Last word for Troy Jackson.
Troy Jackson
Yeah, look, I mean, I worked along the Canadian border. I mean, I've looked into Canada many days while I was working there, and I know who pays for this mess. You know, broad tariffs, raised costs, they threaten logging, fishing, farming. and manufacturing. And what I also know is that part of this broke down. I mean, I have relatives in Canada too. I'm partly French. Part of this broke down because Donald Trump didn't want French language being used. Now imagine that. That is what the president is blocking a tariff about because he didn't want the French language being used with Canada. I mean, that's how insane this has gotten.
Moderator
All right, let's move on. Very quickly, lightning round here. This is going to be fast. I think we only have a minute and a half. Quick questions, quick answers. We're going to go left to right, right to left. Let's begin. AI guardrails. President Trump says he doesn't want them. Yes or no? Should there be federal AI guardrails, Senator Collins?
Susan Collins
Yes. Well, absolutely.
Moderator
How about data centers? Should there be more widespread rules around data centers? Yes or no? Absolutely. Yes or no?
Susan Collins
Yes. I just voted for a bill to do just that.
Moderator
Do you support creating a federal law ensuring access to medical abortion drugs like meth and Pristone? Yes or no?
Susan Collins
Yes, we already have that approved by the FDA.
Moderator
You support that?
Troy Jackson
Yes, but who's going to fight to make sure it's protected?
Moderator
Should voters be required to show ID at the polls? Yes or no? Troy Jackson.
Troy Jackson
No, as a working logger, many times I went to the polls without my ID.
Moderator
No. Senator Collins.
Susan Collins
Yes, only Americans should vote in American elections. I don't think that's too much to ask when you go to register to vote.
Moderator
Medical, excuse me, military aid to Israel, increase, decrease, keep about the same? Senator Collins.
Susan Collins
I think the current level is good. I am a strong supporter.
Moderator
Senator Jackson. MORE, LESS, OR ABOUT THE SAME TO ISRAEL?
Troy Jackson
IT'S KIND OF UNFAIR TO ASK LIKE THIS, BUT I'M ENDORSED BY J STREET AND I THINK THAT WE SHOULD NOT BE GIVEN A BLANK CHECK THERE. UKRAINE? MORE, LESS, OR ABOUT THE SAME? MILITARY SUPPORT?
Susan Collins
I WOULD SAY MORE. I'M A STRONG SUPPORTER OF UKRAINE, BUT What Troy just told you about Israel is very different from what he's been saying. Let's move on. Online, he called for us cutting off all assistance.
Moderator
Now I have to give you, I do want to give a chance to rebut to Senator Jackson.
Troy Jackson
Well, that's not true. What I said is I didn't want any more offensive weapons going to murder people in Palestine. And Netanyahu was a war criminal, but Senator Collins likes him.
Moderator
All right, let's go to closing statements because again, we could talk about a lot of this stuff for quite a while and we're out of time. So let's go to closing statements. Again, based on our coin flip, each candidate will have one minute and we're beginning with Susan Collins. One minute for your closing statement.
Susan Collins
Thank you, Greg. To be effective in the Senate, you need knowledge, experience, seniority, and relationships. That combination has allowed me to pass bipartisan legislation such as the law that restored earned Social Security benefits for teachers, police officers, and firefighters. I wrote the Paycheck Protection Act, which saved 250,000 jobs and countless small businesses right here in Maine. I co-authored the Terrorism Prevention Act that has made us safer. I've also blocked actions that would harm me, including the Biden administration proposed regulations, which would have shut down lobstering, and the Trump administration's attempts to slash medical research and close the Job Corps centers in Bangor and Limestone. I ask for your vote so that I can continue serving you in Washington. Thank you.
Moderator
Thank you very much. And Senator Jackson, the floor is yours. Again, this is the final word in our debate. You have one minute for your closing statement, sir.
Troy Jackson
Well, thank you. Look, I don't owe Donald Trump and the billionaires anything. I owe the people of the state everything. Senator Collins votes with Trump 96% of the time, the billionaire class is who she's been fighting for. I believe that working people deserve a government that works as hard as they do, and right now we don't have that. If you work, you raise your family and pay your taxes, you deserve a decent life, and right now it's harder than ever. Tonight, Senator Collins has told us how powerful she is, but power means nothing if you won't use it when the people in Maine need it. I've used my power in the Maine legislature to fight for you consistently. I've done lower prescription drugs, childcare, universal school meals. I pushed back when Senator Collins was dropping the ball on Roe versus Wade. I made sure here in Maine that we have some of the most progressive laws in the country here in Maine. I'm never going to forget where I came from. I mean, I'm an everyday person that is so indebted to people who put me in this position to fight for them, and I'm humbly asking for your vote so that we can change our government in a way that you're gonna be proud of.
Moderator
Well, thank you very much to both of our candidates tonight. Of course, a huge thank you to our viewers who've been watching at home or online. And again, a reminder, you can continue to watch it again afterwards. You can also scan a QR code that just popped up on your screen where you can watch this right now through the election day as well. It'll take you right to our website and our YouTube page as well. Thank you so much for staying with us. Of course, stay with CBS 13 and Fox 23 for complete election coverage right now, right through Election Day, which, of course, is November 3rd. I was going to ask if there was time if the Patriots are going to make the playoffs again this year. Yes or no in the lightning round. Yes. I think they both agree with that one. All right. Thank you so much. And we're going to have a good night, everybody. And, of course, remember to vote now through Election Day.
Other
But he's a Steelers fan. But he's a Steelers fan. I'm a Vikings fan in Paris.
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