Maine Senate debate, October 8, 2026

Moderator ▶ 0:32

Good evening to candidates. One United States Senate seat tonight. Senator Susan Collins and Troy Jackson are here face to face the questions, the contrasts and the choice facing Maine voters this fall. This is commitment 2026 and it starts right now. The eyes of the nation on Maine. Control of the U.S. Senate hangs in the balance. Two candidates with very different paths to the ballot. Republican Susan Collins seeking a sixth term in Washington where she is chair of the powerful Senate Appropriations Committee.

Susan Collins ▶ 1:09

Like all of you, I work hard and I show up.

Moderator ▶ 1:09

Democrat Troy Jackson, a logger from Allagash and former Maine Senate president, first running for governor, then entering this race after the party's original nominee withdrew.

Troy Jackson ▶ 1:24

I'm fighting for working class people and I'm always going to have those people's backs.

Moderator ▶ 1:29

Jackson says Collins hasn't used her power to do enough for working Mainers.

Troy Jackson ▶ 1:34

What are you taking out of this thing? What are we losing because you won't use your power?

Moderator ▶ 1:40

Collins argues her experience and seniority give Maine an outsized voice on Capitol Hill.

Susan Collins ▶ 1:44

So he's wrong on every count. and it shows his lack of knowledge of the Senate.

Moderator ▶ 1:51

A five-term incumbent, a challenger with just weeks to make his case. Tonight, they meet, addressing the issues that affect you. From WMTW, this is a Commitment 2026 special, an hour-long debate. Here is your moderator, John Crisos. And there is a lot to cover here tonight. Each candidate will get one minute for an opening statement. We'll then get right into the questions. Each of you will get one minute to answer and then 30 seconds for follow-ups at my discretion. We do thank you for being here with us and we drew names to determine the order of the opening statements. Mr. Jackson, you're up first. You have one minute.

Moderator ▶ 3:34

Mr. Jackson, thank you. Senator Collins, you're up next. Your one-minute opening statement.

Susan Collins ▶ 3:42

Good evening. To be effective in the Senate, you need knowledge, experience, seniority, and relationships. That combination allowed me to pass bipartisan legislation to restore earned Social Security benefits to retired teachers, firefighters, and police officers. I also wrote the Paycheck Protection Program, which saved 250,000 jobs and countless small businesses right here in Maine. I authored the Terrorism Prevention Act, which has made us safer. I've also blocked actions that would harm me, including the Biden administration proposals that would have shut down our lobstering and the Trump administration proposals to slash medical research. and to close the Job Corps centers in Bangor and Limestone. It is such an honor to represent you in the United States Senate. And I work hard for you each and every day.

Moderator ▶ 4:48

Senator Collins, that is time. Thank you. And during this debate tonight, our partners at PolitiFact will be doing live fact-checking of the candidates and their claims. You can follow along with their live blog right on our website at WMTW.com. So we do want to get right now to our first question. Both of you have asked voters to trust you and your judgment. So the question as we get started here, it is a question that's specific for each of you during this campaign about an issue that has come up during the campaign. Senator Collins, pro publica, reported on allegations involving illegal contributions from a defense contractor to a super PAC reporting you. You have denied any wrongdoing. The FBI said it previously found nothing implicating you or your campaign. But the question here, what do you say to voters who believe the report at least raises some legitimate questions about whether campaign donors receive special access or influence?

Moderator ▶ 7:06

senator collins thank you mr jackson i'll give you an opportunity to respond and then i have a question for you

Moderator ▶ 8:12

senator collins please a 30-second response

Susan Collins ▶ 8:12

this is just so outrageously false In the past five years, I've secured $500 million for various projects for the University of Maine. 3,000 students have gone through the composite labs because of the funding that I've been able to obtain. I had never heard of this company. It was the University of Maine's project that I was funding. I have served Maine with integrity the entire time and I deeply resent these false allegations.

Moderator ▶ 9:03

Senator Collins, thank you. Mr. Jackson, your question now, as you have openly rejected corporate PAC money in this race. However, the Washington Post reports that up until two years ago that you helped lead a PAC that accepted money from big companies ranging from tobacco to pharmaceutical and gambling. So what do you say to voters who believe that your role in that PAC raises questions about whether those donors had access or influence during your time in Augusta?

Troy Jackson ▶ 9:30

So the Maine Senate Democratic Leadership Pack is a group of people. I didn't make decisions on who or what, when we were going to take money, but even still, what I can tell you is I never got any contracts for any one of those that actually went through the Appropriations Committee like Senator Collins. I mean... When we took money from a company, it made nothing that we were actually going to support a bill or get a contract. Senator Collins is taking money from corporations. She won't stop taking money from corporations. She doesn't want to ban corporate checks. She doesn't want to ban insider stock trading. I mean, those are all things that I've done personally. I can't help that an organization that I actually worked with and had relationships a real significant role in decide to take checks from people. But we certainly never had any pay for place scandals like Senator Collins seems to be doing every day now.

Susan Collins ▶ 10:29

Look, first of all, Troy was head of this pack. He set the rules. I have never accepted any donations from big tobacco. Troy has And for him to pretend that he had no idea what the contributions were to his leadership pack when it was big tobacco, it was pharma, it was pharmaceutical companies, it was many other countries. companies justifies belief. It's just not true. And if you look at the number of times that Troy has flip flopped his position on issues, and it usually has to do with issues that his son has been hired to lobby him on.

Moderator ▶ 11:15

So Senator Jackson, did you know where that money was coming from when you were running that back?

Moderator ▶ 12:09

- Final word on this and then we're moving to the next question please.

Susan Collins ▶ 12:15

- It's just not true. And first of all, corporations cannot give money directly to Collins for Senator or for Jackson for Senator. They established political action committees called PACs that represent all their employees and are limited in giving $5,000 for the primary, $5,000 for the general election. And again, it's just a gross misrepresentation. And that's why Mr. Cowell created a shell company to run his corporation packs through to get to Senator Collins' pack. And that's why he's in jail today. That's why he's a felon. And the FBI found evidence absolutely no evidence to implicate me or any member of my staff.

Moderator ▶ 13:03

- Senator Collins, thank you. I do wanna move on to our next question now. We do have a lot to get to. Before tonight's debate, viewers told us that the cost of living was their top concern. Federal data show prices are up about 4.7% since President Trump began his second term. that is affecting the cost of nearly everything with a few exceptions here, including car prices, eggs and bread. So we're going to spend most of our next 15 minutes here or so talking about affordability and affordability issues here in this debate. And that is where we go with this next question. And it has to do with home heating oil prices hitting a record high here in Maine. LIHEAP we know helps lower income households, but many working families don't qualify and still struggle to pay their heating bills. So the question here, should Congress expand assistance beyond LIHEAP and what would a bill in Congress look like? And for that, we begin with you, Mr. Jackson. -

Troy Jackson ▶ 13:55

Well, yeah, I definitely think, especially for a state like Maine, that's a cold weather state, this would be a great thing for Senator Collins to fight for, but instead, you know, that she advanced the big beautiful bill out of committee that actually cut LIHEAP funding, cut SNAP benefits, obviously cut our healthcare, when i was the appropriations chair in maine i put forward a 400 million dollar heating package and got bipartisan support to get it out in an emergency fashion i mean this this what's going on right now in the state uh is going to be dire for so many people across it and we haven't even gotten to the cold uh colder months yet i mean when people are paying six dollars 650 a gallon i mean there's going to be people that I mean, they can't afford to fill their tanks. And that's something I know very well. And giving income tax cuts to the wealthiest people in this country so that people here in Maine can go without heating oil, can go without health care, is something that I would be very ashamed of.

Moderator ▶ 14:53

So the second part of that question, what would a bill in Congress look like that could help?

Troy Jackson ▶ 14:57

Well, I mean, take the LAAHIB program and expand eligibility to people, but also put more money into it so that more people could get enough to get out of the state. But look, in the end, we have to get out of Iran. I mean, all everything points to this Iran war that is driving these fuel prices in an insane manner. It doesn't matter how much money or anything like that. We can't afford this war because people are going to start losing their businesses. People are going to start losing their homes that are tied to these businesses. And people will freeze to death this winter because they can't afford to heat their home.

Moderator ▶ 15:33

Senator Collins, same question for you. Should Congress expand assistance beyond LIHEAP? And what could a possible bill in Congress look like?

Susan Collins ▶ 15:37

Well, first of all, let me say that Mainers are struggling as they're filling up their heating pumps, their heating tanks this winter. And I have been the leading proponent of the low-income home heating program in Congress. We increased it last year, and just today, I was on the phone with the cabinet secretary asking for early relief from these prices by getting the LIHEAP funding out early, right now. And I'm hopeful that will happen next week. What could we do? We could expand that program further and we could expand the weatherization program so that people have to use less oil or less natural gas to heat their homes. But there's a second problem that Troy doesn't even touch on, and that is we have a supply problem. We need to become energy independent in this country. I'm pleased that the administration has 100 million barrels of gas of crude oil and diesel coming to this country from our european allies that will help to lower prices

Moderator ▶ 16:46

thank you senator collins the follow-up to that here uh should more be done as well as far as possibly spend suspending the federal gas tax or maybe expanding the current release from the strategic petroleum reserve something that has been talked about senator collins

Susan Collins ▶ 17:06

I have already asked the administration along with Senator King that they release all of the oil that is in the Northeast home heating reserve. That's specifically for crisis like this. I talked to the Secretary of Energy twice this past week. He seems very receptive to that. Understandably, he was focused on getting the 100 million barrels from our European allies. But yes, we should release that funding. That would help.

Moderator ▶ 17:54

And then what is your response to that?

Moderator ▶ 19:19

Senator Collins, how do you answer to your votes specifically on the Iran war?

Susan Collins ▶ 19:24

Well, first of all, I have voted nine times to bring the war in Iran to an end. Under the War Powers Act, for the first 60 days, the President as Commander-in-Chief has broad discretion to commit our troops and to enter military action. After that, it requires congressional approval. And that is why I have voted nine times to end this war. This is not the only issue when it comes to our supply of oil. The second day that Joe Biden was in office, He canceled the Keystone pipeline that would have brought oil from Canada to the United States. I don't know whether Troy supported that cancellation. I don't recall him speaking out against it, but that would have helped to increase our supply as well.

Moderator ▶ 20:28

- Before we move to the next question or response. -

Moderator ▶ 21:24

That is a big claim, so Senator Collins...

Susan Collins ▶ 21:24

That is absolutely outrageous, and you owe me an apology. That is absolutely outrageous. to say that my husband and I are making money off the war in Iran is absolutely outrageous. And plus, I would point out that Troy is confusing energy supply and where it comes from with the energy independence. We do need to be energy independent, but that's not going to happen overnight. We need permitting reform. I have long wanted, a pipeline for natural gas to come bring us shale oil and shale gas from Pennsylvania to Maine, but we need permitting reform to have that happen. And it is, we need to do things like I recently helped to secure the project in Lincoln at the old mill that will help make our electric grid more reliable. It's under Troy's leadership that electric rates in Maine became the fourth highest in the nation. The nation.

Troy Jackson ▶ 22:46

What does that have to do with the Iran war?

Moderator ▶ 22:50

That is fine, but that does bring us to our next question.

Troy Jackson ▶ 22:53

If we did have the Keystone Pipeline right now, what do you think the Canadians would be doing to us because of the tariffs and the fight that She has not stopped because Donald Trump took on. I'm sure they'd be shutting off oil and that too.

Moderator ▶ 23:03

We'll talk about tariffs in a moment, but that does bring us to our next question on affordability and a specific vote question for each of you. Mr. Jackson, back in 2019, you co-sponsored and voted for LD 1711. That expanded Maine's solar and net energy billing program. The public advocate later said that program was expected to cost main electricity customers more than $234 million in 2025 alone. So looking back on that vote now, knowing what we know, do you believe you underestimated the cost of that program?

Troy Jackson ▶ 23:36

- I mean, when we voted for that bill, that was actually, Senator Dow's bill, a Republican from Lincoln County, we were told that it was going to be not cheap, but it was going to be something that right payers could handle. And the PUC or the public advocate said that that would be what it would cost if we didn't reform the program. We've reformed it twice since then. So we did listen to the public advocate and lowered those costs, but I think, you know, Well, a big part of our energy problems are Ukraine, the natural gas that we've seen those spikes. And now with Iran, we're seeing those spikes again here big time. And that's where the rate increases are coming from because of the cost of fuel is what's driving our energy in this state and and so yeah I mean we reformed that program it did cost more than it should have but we reformed it twice and I think getting us off of fossil fuel we still have a great shot to do the rustic transmission line to get all that wind out of rooster County I actually think when we do we'll lower our energy costs across the state because other states will have to be coming and buying power from us and

Moderator ▶ 24:45

Senator Collins your response

Susan Collins ▶ 24:45

First of all, let's make no mistake about this. Troy voted against a bill that the public advocate said would have reduced electric costs for the average household by $275 a year. His big plan for energy from Maroosa County totally collapsed, completely failed. So it's just not accurate to say that it's the Iran war that has caused Maine to have the fourth highest electric bills in the country. If it were the Iran war, why wouldn't New Hampshire and other states have the same level of electric bills that Maine has?

Moderator ▶ 25:41

I'll give you 30 seconds, Mr. Jackson, to respond to the voting record that she brought up of yours.

Troy Jackson ▶ 25:48

Well, again, Senator Collins is not being truthful. I mean, it was in the paper again today that what the public advocate said was that if we didn't reform it, and she isn't being truthful about that, because we did, it would have cost more money if we didn't, and we did. $275, Senator Collins, that's definitely a lot of money. But how much money are all of you paying? right now because of her inability to push Donald Trump on the Iran war. I mean, we are paying way more than $275 a month because of that problem. And I definitely reject the idea that, you know, I'm not willing to fight for people and lower the rates. I absolutely am. But I do think that we have to get off of fossil fuel and there is a way. the worst transmission line did not fail the the puc just came back out with the and there was bids for it there are people that are going to go forward that that was a big bill that senator collins was never able to get an actor or work on

Moderator ▶ 26:45

we'll have to end it there uh senator collins our question for you now uh specific to affordability as it has been reported you voted to advance president trump's one big beautiful bill but then voted against the final passage citing uh concerns about medicaid cuts and the impacts as well on rural hospitals So if those cuts were serious enough to oppose the bill in the end, why vote to move it forward in the first place?

Susan Collins ▶ 27:08

Well, first of all, the bill was going to move forward with or without my vote. And I think that is important to understand. And at the end, both Troy and I would have voted against the bill because of the cuts in Medicaid. But what did I get in that bill? Because we did get it on the floor. I created the $50 billion Rural Health Care Fund, of which Maine has already received in the first allotment $190 million. And just today, Governor Mills announced that she was going to use funding from Maine's allotment to save the Penobscot County Health Care Clinics. That is wonderful because 55,000 Mainers rely, I'm sorry, 5,500 Mainers rely on that healthcare, those healthcare clinics. And it was because of of what I authored that the money was there in the big beautiful bill. I don't support the Medicaid cuts that are in the bill. That's why I voted against it. It did not come out of my committee despite what Troy said. again tonight.

Moderator ▶ 28:34

Senator Collins, thank you. As we do talk about the larger picture here about health care and health care costs, many Mainers tell us that that is something that they are really worried about right now. We have seen that the Trump administration is sending those one time payments of about $90 to more than 20 million Medicare beneficiaries, along with $500 refunds to some a C. A enrollees. But Medicare Part B premiums now exceed $200 a month. So are these payments from the Trump administration meaningful relief or do they fall short of the real problem when it comes to healthcare? Senator Collins. -

Susan Collins ▶ 29:11

Well, they fall short, but I'm sure that they're helpful to some people. But what we've gotta do is to work on healthcare affordability. And a major issue here is the high cost of prescription drugs. I did an investigation when I was head of the Senate Aging Committee into the high cost of prescription drugs. And what I found is that there were all these barriers to generic, lower priced generic drugs coming to the market. I wrote the law that eases and speeds up the approval of lower cost generic drugs. In addition, I'm the author, along with Jean Shaheen of New Hampshire, of a bill that would put a $35 cap on the cost of insulin per month. Now, many people who need insulin pay as much as $150 a month. So I think there's a lot that we can do to make healthcare more affordable.

Moderator ▶ 30:21

- Mr. Jackson, the same question for you regarding these payments from the Trump administration. Is that meaningful relief or are you calling for more? -

Moderator ▶ 31:42

Senator Collins, a 30-second response, please.

Susan Collins ▶ 31:42

So once again, Troy claims that I wrote the big, beautiful bill that came out of my committee. It did not, and I do not know why he keeps saying that. But let me tell you an important fact about the cost of insurance in Maine. So to get an Affordable Care Act premium in Maine, it is 77% higher than what you would pay in New Hampshire. Who is that the fault of? Troy Jackson. That is directly due to a bill that he pushed through that passed on a party line vote that changed how insurance was provided in Maine.

Moderator ▶ 32:31

- Senator Collins, that is time. Mr. Jackson, a response, and then we'll move to our next topic, please.

Troy Jackson ▶ 32:37

- Well, I didn't say that she wrote the bill and I didn't say that she passed out of a committee. I said she helped advance the bill. I mean, let's, but as far as healthcare in Maine, I mean, we made sure that insurance companies, protected people, I mean, you know, took care of people. And I'm sure Senator Collins would like us to have junk insurance programs, but no, we thought it was more important to make sure that people did have prescription drugs, pharmaceutical care, all these different things. And that, I think, is what real health insurance should be, not stuff that people go to and still come out of there having to spend a lot of money to get the care they need.

Moderator ▶ 33:17

-

Susan Collins ▶ 33:17

Junk insurance programs are not what we're talking about here. These are the Affordable Care Act plans, and they do not allow, they have a list of mandated benefits, but you pay 77% of the money higher premiums in Maine than in New Hampshire.

Moderator ▶ 33:36

We appreciate the clarification. On to our next topic here. Maine's population is the oldest by median age in the country. Social Security, especially important here in our state. The Social Security Retirement Trust Fund, though, is projected to be depleted in 2032, after which the program could pay only 78% of scheduled benefits. So what specific change would you support to keep it solvent? And what change would you reject? Mr. Jackson, this question goes to you first.

Troy Jackson ▶ 34:00

Well, I think it's pretty clear. It's been talked about for a long time. I mean, we need to remove the cap. so that wealthy people pay in at the same rate as your working class people. Right now, if you're making $180,000, you pay $10,000 in Social Security. If you're making $5 million, you pay $10,000 in Social Security. I don't believe that's fair. And I also believe that we should, once we get rid of the cap so that we can make it solvent, we could raise benefits for people that are really struggling right now in this economy that Donald Trump and Susan Collins have created. I mean, people that only get $1,000 a month when they're paying $1,600 or $1,700 for a tank of oil, I mean, they can't keep up. And that's why making sure that billionaires pay at the same rate as people that are just squeaking by, I think is important. Something that Senator Collins has rejected time and time again, that she didn't want to move the cap. She didn't want to scrap the cap. That that is something that I think we have to do. And that's something I'm going to fight for.

Moderator ▶ 35:07

And when you say removing the cap, you mean people who earn more are paying more into Social Security. Senator Collins, what do you think about that?

Susan Collins ▶ 35:16

Well, first of all, I think Social Security is the most important social program ever passed in the United States. And I have been a strong supporter of it. I'm the one who authored the Social Security Fairness Act to restore the benefits to retired school teachers, firefighters, police officers, and other public employees. I believe that we should create a commission of independent financial experts to give us advice on what should be done. But here is something where I actually agree with Troy. I don't think someone who makes $40 million a year as a movie star should pay the same rate of Social Security taxes as someone who's earning $184,000 a year. We simply are going to have to adjust the cap.

Moderator ▶ 36:13

And on that moment of agreement, we do want to take a break here this evening. There is much more to come. Take a moment, catch your breath, have a sip of water, and we'll be back in just 90 seconds. And welcome back to this Commitment 2026 special from Maine's Total Coverage, a debate with the candidates for U.S. Senate, Democrat Troy Jackson and Republican Senator Susan Collins. Before we get back into the issues here tonight, let's talk about this campaign in general. Senator Collins, you have called this the quote, strangest race of your career. In 1996, you pledged to serve only two terms, now seeking a sixth. So after nearly 30 years in the Senate and more than 10,000 votes, what do you still want to get done that led you to change your mind about serving only two terms?

Susan Collins ▶ 38:46

Well, John, what I learned is how much more effective I could be as the seventh senator ranked person in the Senate versus 99th which is what I was when I first started out. I have secured 1.5 billion dollars for 672 projects all over the state of Maine during the past five years. I ranked second in the entire Senate on a per capita basis in bringing back federal funds to the state of Maine to help for investments in our community, ranging from our rural hospitals to childcare centers to roads to bridges to wastewater treatment systems to education programs at the University of Maine, our community colleges. I couldn't have done this in the early years in the Senate. In addition, I helped to shape federal policy, for example, preventing cuts in medical research and I've become the chair of the Appropriations Committee, the first Maine senator in 92 years to hold that position.

Moderator ▶ 40:02

- Thank you, Senator Collins, that is time. Mr. Jackson, quite the journey for you as well to this stage here tonight. You first ran for governor, finishing third in the primary. You then entered the Senate race after Graham Plattner, of course, dropped out. So why should voters see this as your own campaign and not something that you inherited?

Moderator ▶ 41:26

Senator Collins, I will give you an opportunity to respond there.

Susan Collins ▶ 41:26

I have worked with five different presidents and with each of them I've supported them when I thought they were right and I've opposed them when I thought they were wrong. Year after year I am ranked as the most bipartisan member of the Senate. I am proud of the independent approach I've taken and Troy's just wrong when he says that I vote with President Trump 95% of the time. He quotes a study that looks at only a third of the votes. If you look at all of the votes that were cast, I have voted with the administration about 72% of the time. Using his approach, I voted with President Biden 91% of the time. The fact is, this year alone, this Congress alone, I voted with him. voted against President Trump 137 times.

Moderator ▶ 42:26

I do have to cut it off there, Senator Collins.

Troy Jackson ▶ 42:33

Please, she voted 100 times against Trump, but it didn't matter. And when she talks about those five presidents... How many of those five presidents did she let them take away her authority as a U.S. senator? You know, not stopping the war in Iran, tariffs. I mean, that is the problem. When Donald Trump wants something, Senator Collins will not stop him. And when she doesn't stop him, it hurts Mainers.

Moderator ▶ 42:59

And Mr. Jackson, you brought up abortion rights, so we'll go there next. Both of you do have records on abortion that voters have scrutinized and looked at during this campaign. The question here tonight that I'd like each of you to answer, if a bill creating federal protections for abortion access came before the Senate, would you vote for it? And what limits, if any, would that include? Mr. Jackson.

Troy Jackson ▶ 43:18

Absolutely, I would vote for it. I mean, I've been doing that for the last 12 years. I mean, I've made sure that Maine has some of the most progressive reproductive rights bills in the country. I made sure that low-income women had access to reproductive rights through MaineCare. I mean, over the last decade or more, I've been fighting consistently to make sure that women had access because I understood that It was important, it was healthcare, and it was an economic issue for them to decide when and if they were going to have a family. I'm sure Senator Collins is going to bring this up, but our records have changed. I mean, mine has gotten better, hers has gotten worse. She's made sure that, I think she's put 55 anti-abortion judges onto the courts, and including Brett Kavanaugh, that she knew that he was anti-abortion and that was what he was going to do when he got there. And he did. And look, Maine women begged her. They drove all the way to D.C. to actually beg her not to do that because they knew what Brett Kavanaugh was going to do. And then after she voted to put him on there, and she was the second vote, he took away Roe versus Wade. So yes, this state, we've done a lot to make sure that we protect it. And U.S. Senate, I would do everything I could.

Moderator ▶ 44:34

Senator Collins, the same question for you. If the bill creating federal protections for abortion access came before the Senate, would you vote for it?

Moderator ▶ 45:47

That is time. 30 second response on that.

Troy Jackson ▶ 45:52

Yeah, well, obviously that's not correct that I was an extremist. Was I voting the wrong way? Yeah. And I've said that consistently, you know, but the fact of the matter is, is that I can admit when I was wrong. Senator Collins can't. She still won't admit that she was wrong and putting Brett Kavanaugh on, which took away Roe versus Wade. And since then, I mean, I co-sponsored LD 1619, which is the most progressive reproductive rights bill in the country. I had to fight for that. I had people make unbelievable accusations about us, but we stuck it out because we knew how important that was because women told us that they needed that type of health care. And I didn't fail them on that. Senator Collins had women go to her and ask her not to put Brett Kavanaugh on. They knew that that he was gonna do, taking away Roe versus Wade, Senator Collins let it happen.

Susan Collins ▶ 46:47

- You know, I have to respond to that. I am the only Republican senator who voted for Justice Sonia Sotomayor, Justice Kagan, and Justice Jackson Brown. The only Republican senator to support those three judges who were appointed by Democratic presidents, I apply the same standard to all of the Supreme Court nominees.

Moderator ▶ 47:20

Senator Collins, thank you. This has been a big topic in Maine, so I want to make sure we do have time to talk about this. There was the Operation Catch of the Day from the federal government. That's what it was called. Then an ICE agent fatally shot a Biddeford man in July. The two of you have disagreed since then over whether ICE should be reformed or eliminated. Congress has since approved billions of dollars in new ICE funding, including money for body cameras. So the question for both of you here is, Should Congress continue funding ICE without any enforceable conditions? And what, if any, requirements would you attach to the next dollar if elected? Mr. Jackson, this will go to you.

Moderator ▶ 49:09

Mr. Jackson, thank you. Senator Collins, your approach on this situation, should it be a condition on future funding? Or what do you think about what Mr. Jackson just said?

Susan Collins ▶ 49:19

We need to reform ICE further. There's no doubt about that. The The shooting in Biddeford was horrific and the entire main delegation wrote to the independent inspector general to ask for a thorough investigation and that is underway. But we cannot completely abolish ICE as Troy has called for many times. ISIS responsible for deporting violent criminals such as the member of the Venezuelan cartel that killed the 22-year-old nursing student. It's responsible for investigating child exploitation, drug smuggling, international cartels and financial crimes, pornography schemes. Do we really want to make the country less safe? What I secured funding for were body-worn cameras so that we would know exactly what happened in these confrontations or even worse in a shooting. And I think there are additional reforms that are needed. I don't think ICE should be able to do arrests in sensitive places like schools, hospitals, doctors' offices. So there are clearly other reforms that could be made.

Moderator ▶ 50:45

And Senator Collins, that is time. I'm sorry, we do have to end there. A 30-second response, please, Mr. Jackson.

Moderator ▶ 51:33

Senator Collins, you're shaking your head, so I'll give you a quick answer on this, a quick response, please, and then we'll move on to a new topic.

Susan Collins ▶ 51:42

They have to be turned on during an enforcement action. And if It's just not accurate. I prioritized the body-worn cameras after the shootings in Minneapolis, and I have worked with the acting director of ICE and the new secretary of DHS to make sure that the ICE officers in Maine were fully trained and equipped.

Troy Jackson ▶ 52:09

So they have to be turned on, yes. But they don't have to turn over the tape unless it's in the best interest of that agency. That is in the law.

Moderator ▶ 52:18

In late August, Senator Collins, you wrote to the Trump administration warning that tariffs on Canada would hurt Maine employers and raise costs as well for families here. Mr. Jackson, then you accused Senator Collins of failing to use her vote to stop those tariffs. So let's focus on the policy here next. What is your position on the current US-Canada tariff dispute and should Congress require approval before a president can impose those broad tariffs? Senator Collins. -

Susan Collins ▶ 52:48

Yes, tariffs are actually a constitutional responsibility of Congress, but over the years, Congress gave more and more of that authority to the executive branch. And that happened far earlier than this president. I do believe we should regain control and that is why I have cast so many votes Every single time we voted on the Canadian tariffs, I voted against them. But I've done more than that. I've been working with the Secretary of Commerce and the Special Trade Representative to get the Canadian tariffs lifted. on items that are very important to our blueberry growers, to our small communities, to those who use concrete. And I'm having some success on that, and I'm going to continue pushing.

Moderator ▶ 53:49

Senator Collins, thank you. Mr. Jackson.

Troy Jackson ▶ 53:49

Well, I mean, I think, you know, you just heard Senator Collins lay it out there. I mean, that is the job of Congress. I really don't know why anyone, Republican or Democrat, would want to be in Congress and give all their authority to a president that, you know, is a narcissist. I mean, Senator Collins is the chair of Appropriations. There are other ways to leverage that position to stop these tariffs. And, I mean, again, we're letting one man dictate tariffs, and even if Congress gave some authority in the past, No president went after Canada with blanket tariffs ever. And this is Congress's role and they should take it back. They should have taken it back. This shouldn't be happening or they should be holding Trump accountable some other way. And there's lots of ways you can do that as a powerful appropriations chair.

Moderator ▶ 54:44

Senator Collins, are there ways that you can use the appropriations process to change the tariff decision from the president?

Susan Collins ▶ 54:53

Well, the Appropriations Committee does not have jurisdiction over tariffs, which I have explained previously. But we are working, I am working directly with the administration to try to get some of these tariffs lifted. I've already had some success on Pulse. on concrete, on road salt. I know that Troy makes fun of road salt, but the fact is if he asks towns in Washington County and Aroostook County, it's a significant additional cost that because of my efforts they no longer will have to bear. The town of Frenchville, 900 people, was going to cost an additional $10,000. Presque Isle was going to cost $65,000. thousand dollars more this winter

Moderator ▶ 55:40

senator colin thank you

Troy Jackson ▶ 55:40

so what about all the other tariffs that are on how much money is that going to cost the town of prescott the town of frenchville all the people that walk work in the farming and fishing and forestry industry i mean all those people pirates everything that comes out of canada our products go to canada i mean that's what's actually going to cost people and and again she she didn't answer your question I mean, it should have been that, yes, there is ways that appropriations could have done something. I mean, she has the purse. She could have used it against Donald Trump in another way until he got off of this blanket tariff foolishness.

Susan Collins ▶ 56:23

We have had vote after vote on tariffs. and nobody has been more outspoken against the Canadian tariffs than I have.

Moderator ▶ 56:31

Senator Collins, thank you. We'll leave that there. We just have a few minutes left, but we do want to get to some quick lightning round type questions. These will be yes or no or very short answers, one sentence or less, no rebuttals. Mr. Jackson, if... reelected, if elected, and Senator Collins reelected, which three of the Senate's 24 committees would you want to serve on most? We go to you first, Mr. Jackson.

Troy Jackson ▶ 56:55

I mean, labor and housing, appropriations. I mean, look... just like in the Maine legislature, every committee is important. Ag, I mean, there's so many different ones, but I would try and get on as many as possible.

Moderator ▶ 57:11

- Senator Collins, if we elected, what committees would you be interested in?

Susan Collins ▶ 57:15

- I would keep the same committees that I have now. I'm chair of the Appropriations Committee, the most powerful committee in the Senate. I would also keep my position on the Intelligence Committee, and on the Health, Education, Labor and Pensions Committee.

Moderator ▶ 57:29

- Senator Collins, who do you think should be the leader of your party in the Senate?

Susan Collins ▶ 57:35

- John Foote. -

Moderator ▶ 57:35

Mr. Jackson. -

Troy Jackson ▶ 57:35

I'm not even sure who else is running, but I've already told Senator Schumer that I'm not gonna support him.

Moderator ▶ 57:44

Should there be term limits in Congress, Mr. Jackson?

Troy Jackson ▶ 57:44

Absolutely. I mean, we have them in Maine. They work well. And I definitely think Congress should have the same.

Moderator ▶ 57:53

Senator Collins?

Susan Collins ▶ 57:53

No, I don't think there should be. I think that's what you have elections for.

Moderator ▶ 57:58

Senator Collins, do you use AI in your daily life, professionally or personally?

Susan Collins ▶ 58:04

Sometimes when I'm writing an email, AI will suggest a different spelling or a different word. That's what you're talking about? I guess the answer would be yes. In more sophisticated ways, no.

Moderator ▶ 58:17

Mr. Jackson, do you use AI?

Troy Jackson ▶ 58:17

Not personally, no.

Moderator ▶ 58:23

Supreme Court term limits, yes or no? -

Troy Jackson ▶ 58:23

Oh, absolutely. I mean, this is insane what's going on. Clear ethics reform too, but yes. -

Moderator ▶ 58:32

Senator Collins? -

Susan Collins ▶ 58:32

Absolutely not. That is contrary to the whole notion of the Supreme Court. And I know that Troy wants to pack the court. And I think as Ruth Bader-

Moderator ▶ 58:43

And we are out of time. Thank you so much for being here.

Troy Jackson ▶ 58:46

I wouldn't have to pack it if you wouldn't put Kevin on.

Moderator ▶ 58:52

Have a great rest of your night. You can watch our debate as well online.