Michigan Senate debate, October 21, 2026

Moderator ▶ 0:51

Live from the Channel 7 studio in Southfield, Michigan, this is the Michigan U.S. Senate debate. Good evening and welcome to WXYZ's Michigan U.S. Senate Debate. I am 7 News Detroit anchor Carolyn Clifford. And I'm WXYZ editorial and public affairs director Chuck Stokes. And I'm 7 News Detroit anchor Alicia Smith. We have been listening to people across Metro Detroit and the great state of Michigan compiling questions that matter most to you, the people who call Michigan home. Tonight is about those voters. The questions we will be asking will be very direct and we will be looking for direct answers. And we will also expect both candidates to follow the rules previously agreed upon with both of their campaigns. But first, thank you to our guests for agreeing to be here tonight. Republican candidate, former Congressman Mike Rogers, and Democratic candidate, Dr. Abdul El-Sayed. Earlier, we held a drawing with both campaigns to decide who gets to go first with their 92nd opening statement. We'll start with Congressman Rogers, followed by Dr. El-Sayed. Congressman Rogers, your opening statement.

Mike Rogers ▶ 2:05

Well, thank you very much for hosting us this evening. Welcome viewers at home. Mike Rogers, former army officer and special agent with the FBI, used to handling hard and difficult challenges. My wife and I got into this race because Michigan is in trouble. Our people are hurting. When you think about what's happened just in the last eight years, 27,000 manufacturing jobs lost, highest utilities in the Midwest. We have the highest auto insurance rates in the nation. We have our education system has plummeted. We're now 45th in the country. Overall economics, we're 46. And I think what you're going to hear tonight is a very different view of how we fix these problems, how we get Michigan back up and running again. One, a candidate who's aligned with the Democrat Socialists of America, bigger government, more taxes. Matter of fact, has a carbon tax that he wants to put on that would give you the highest utility rates, over $2,000 in new costs. You have the fact that gasoline would go up about 20 cents a gallon. So what you think about bigger government, more taxes, more regulation is just not the way we get this done. And my opponent's going to try to make this about me versus him, but I'm going to tell you this is about you and Michigan's future, and I look forward to that conversation.

Moderator ▶ 3:32

Thank you, Congressman. Dr. El-Sayed, you have 90 seconds for your opening statement.

Moderator ▶ 5:06

Thank you very much, gentlemen, for your opening statements. Carolyn. Thank you much, Alicia. And thank you, gentlemen. Now let's get to the first question of the evening. It is about the economy. We're going to start with you, Dr. El-Sayed. One of the top concerns we've heard from our viewers is, of course, the cost of living. Families are struggling with the cost of groceries, with the cost of gas and other essentials. What specific legislation would you support in the Senate to bring down the cost and put more money into the pockets of Michiganders? You have 60 seconds, sir.

Abdul El-Sayed ▶ 5:39

Look, when I led Wayne County's Department of Health Human and Veterans Services, we were working specifically to make life more affordable for folks. It's the reason we built a program to provide free health insurance for new small businesses to help them. And we led and provided small business health insurance for over a thousand Wayne County businesses. businesses. But here's the thing about it. Right now, the cost of gas, the cost of groceries, it all really goes back to this war in Iran. We need a war powers resolution rather than a senator who is going to stand hip to hip with Donald Trump on this war that made no sense when it started and certainly makes no sense now. I'm looking forward to standing with my colleagues in the United States Senate to hold Donald Trump accountable for this war. The other thing that we're going to need to do is take on the corporations who bought and sold politicians for a very long time. whether it's DTE who spent $64,000 helping to support my opponent or it's Blue Cross Blue Shield or it's Big Tech or it's Big Pharma, all corporations who've bought them off, we've got to stand up to them, make sure that they are being held accountable and that you don't get raked over the coals for the kind of politicians that they buy to rig the system against us.

Moderator ▶ 6:40

that is your time dr el sayed thank you so much uh congressman rogers same question for you families are struggling with the cost of groceries gas and other essentials what specific legislation would you support in the senate to bring down the cost and put more money into the pockets of michiganders

Mike Rogers ▶ 6:56

yeah we need to continue to explore American energy and get American energy into the market. That's going to go a long way in lowering prices and lowering gas prices and diesel prices and other things. I'm going to make permanent the tax cuts on overtime and tips and Social Security. Those have had huge impacts on people who are actually getting up, going kissing their kids, putting them on the bus and going to work every day. Those become really, really important. And an overall tax environment that encourages business to start. My opponent, unfortunately, has this massive tax increase that he wants to put on every Michigan family and every American family. We've seen this before and it has dragged the economy down. And just quickly, It's a little bit rich to me that my opponent talks about corporate donations. He snuck into Chuck Schumer's office and asked and begged for corporate money. And you see it on TV today, $35 million of corporate PAC money flowing all over this state.

Moderator ▶ 7:58

That is your job, Congressman. Thank you. Dr. El-Sayed, you now have 30 seconds for rebuttal.

Abdul El-Sayed ▶ 8:03

Yeah, what's curious is that he does not want to talk about the $64,000 he took from DTE, the million dollars, more than 95% of Congress that he took from Big Pharma, and then voted 19 times to keep your prescription drug prices high. He doesn't want to talk about the $14 million he made on the back of advising the same corporations he was regulating when he was in Congress. Does not want to talk about his own record when it comes to bowing down to the corporations who make your life harder and charge you more for the things that you need in your life. That is MAGA politics. Again, you could have knocked off one of the words right on MAGA bingo right there.

Moderator ▶ 8:36

Doctor, that is your time, Congressman. You now have 30 seconds for a rebuttal.

Mike Rogers ▶ 8:39

Yeah, I mean, this is just so rich. Everything that he said, A, is not accurate, not correct. But you know, when you ask somebody, a new investigator, about how you figure out if somebody's honest and willing to tell you the truth, you go through a series of questions. Did you lie on your resume? Yep, did. He lied about being a physician. Did he lie about his relationships with an organization that should give us all pause? Yep, he did. He lied about being an Egyptian dual citizen. He lied about some of his stances on these positions as he's flipped again. This is a pattern. that we need to understand for this, to trust this candidate.

Moderator ▶ 9:17

Thank you, Carolyn. Candidates, we'll continue along the economic theme but drill down on a specific area. The Trump administration has used tariffs as a major trade policy tool. In your view, have those tariffs helped or hurt American workers, consumers, and manufacturers? Congressman, you have one minute.

Mike Rogers ▶ 9:38

I think it's a mixed bag. But here's what I will tell you. The reshoring of manufacturing is underway. I completely support that. I'm in line with the UAW on those issues. The Chevy Silverado is built in Mexico today. Guess what? By 2027, it's coming back, going to the Orion plant. Chevy is also bringing manufacturing back from China. This is huge. Detroit Diesel adding a third shift. Some of these small fabrication shops adding second shifts and or third shifts for the first time in decades. Those are a positive development for the great state of Michigan. I have stepped back and said maybe these Canadian tariffs, were not well thought through, mainly because of the interaction between our automobile companies and Canada when it comes just in time manufacturing. So I'll go back and you might want to send the guy back who can actually get the meeting to get these things worked out. If it's good for Michigan, I'm going to be for it. If it's bad for Michigan, I'm going to be against it.

Moderator ▶ 10:37

Congressman, thank you. Dr. Seya, the same question. I'll repeat it for clarification. The Trump administration has used tariffs as a major trade tool. In your view, have those tariffs helped or hurt American workers, consumers, and manufacturers? You have one minute.

Abdul El-Sayed ▶ 10:52

Clearly, these tariffs have hurt American manufacturers. Clearly, they have hurt the American worker. Clearly, they have hurt our pocketbooks, $5,600 on average. We're paying for this. He cheer-led this. Now, he said he was in line with the UAW. I'll tell you, the UAW is not in line with him. They've endorsed me, and they are dead set against the policies that he is backing. GM just posted the single biggest stock buyback in automotive history, something he's backed for a very long time, a corporate politician. Let's talk exactly about how this could work. NAFTA, which he supported, was a terrible cancer on the American economy. If we want to treat cancer, maybe there's a kind of tariff you could use as chemotherapy, but you don't give all the chemo all at once, all at the same time. Instead, you have to be real clear about what you want to do. I think we need to use tariffs specifically around how we can protect certain automotive opportunities, the opportunities for growth in jobs that we actually need rather than this haphazard approach, which he has backed just like he backed NAFTA.

Moderator ▶ 11:50

All right. Thank you very much. Congressman, you now have 30 seconds for a rebuttal.

Mike Rogers ▶ 11:55

Yeah. Again, just this pattern of deception misleading. By the way, NAFTA was passed about 10 years before I got into Congress. This is really kind of a ridiculous argument. But here's what we need to understand. What my opponent is actually calling for is the largest tax increase in the nation's history. The largest. And why UAW members, UAW for Rogers is our fast-growing coalition for us. They understand that he wants to take away private health insurance that they've collectively bargained, and he's going to take it away and give it to the government.

Moderator ▶ 12:26

Thank you, Congressman. Dr. El-Sayed, your rebuttal.

Abdul El-Sayed ▶ 12:29

For those playing mega bingo at home, you just heard like three of the buzzwords. I just want to be clear, he literally is on record having said that in the long term NAFTA would be good for the American worker.

Mike Rogers ▶ 12:40

Sorry, what year was that?

Abdul El-Sayed ▶ 12:41

He said that NAFTA would be good for the American worker.

Mike Rogers ▶ 12:43

I did not. I think everybody could have told you NAFTA was going to be disaster for the American worker.

Abdul El-Sayed ▶ 12:48

He has this long history of just being wrong on all of these issues and then comes in and tries to tell you that somehow I'm being deceptive. It's your record, my guy. Just own your record. That's all you got to do.

Mike Rogers ▶ 12:57

You should be honest about the record. That would help.

Moderator ▶ 13:01

All right, gentlemen, that's time. Alicia, you have the next question. We turn now to the war with Iran, and I'll direct this question to you first, Dr. El-Sayed. The United States has used military force against Iran, a decision that has divided Americans. Do you believe that Iran poses a significant threat to U.S. national security? And what should America's strategy be moving forward? Dr. Syed, you have – Al-Syed, you have 60 seconds.

Abdul El-Sayed ▶ 13:28

There's no doubt that Iran has posed a threat. Here's the problem with it, though, is that that threat had been contained back during the Obama administration when he used diplomacy and not war to contain the threat. It was called the JCPOA. And Donald Trump, when he came in his first term, decided to rip that agreement up. And then in his second term decided to make war. Now, mind you, Mike Rogers has been promoting this war since before he was in Congress. He's got a war for everything and he won't back off the war now. He supports this war. And I want you to understand exactly what happened now. The consequences of this war are that you are paying nearly $5 in gas. You're paying more in groceries because of the price of diesel. He has cheer led this war all along because he stands hip to hip with Donald Trump. And if you don't believe me, I want you to pay attention on Sunday when Donald Trump comes here at the invitation of Mike Rogers to remind you that in fact Donald Trump is on the ballot through Mike Rogers. They are hip to hip on this war and you are paying the cost.

Moderator ▶ 14:29

Thank you, Dr. El-Sayed. Congressman Rogers, I'll repeat the question for you. Do you believe Iran poses a significant threat to U.S. national security and what should America's strategy be moving forward? You have 60 seconds.

Moderator ▶ 15:39

- Congressman Rogers, thank you. You have the first 30-second rebuttal. Dr. El-Sahed. -

Moderator ▶ 16:16

Thank you, Dr. El-Sayed. Congressman Rogers, second rebuttal, 30 seconds.

Mike Rogers ▶ 16:19

So being bought off by the Muslim Brotherhood, having donors to his campaign from Hamas, that support Hezbollah, is not a problem. If you are going to go to the United States Senate, we need to know, are you for America or are you for these terrorist groups overseas? You can grin and you can smile and you can talk real pretty, but I'm going to tell you what, that is a risk to our national security. Matter of fact, the New York Times gave him an option to condemn his comments supporting the --

Moderator ▶ 16:48

Time. Thank you, Congressman Rogers. We're going to have to leave it there so we can get other topics in.

Mike Rogers ▶ 16:53

And he said opportunity -- No comment. No comment.

Moderator ▶ 16:55

Thank you so much for your answers, gentlemen. Apologies. We do need to move on. Carolyn? We can do it in the next question in your time, Dr. El-Sayed. This next question is about immigration and border security. Congressman Rogers, what changes, if any, would you make to current immigration and border policies? And how would you balance enforcement, legal immigration and asylum claims? 60 seconds.

Mike Rogers ▶ 17:17

So we have to actually make sure the border stays secure. What has happened in the last two years is amazing. We've had a 20 percent drop nationally in murders. The enforcement, ICE enforcement, has gone after rapists and murderers and gangbangers and drug dealers and human traffickers, and it has had a tremendous impact on crime. My argument, we should continue to do that. Find those folks who are committing crimes and get them the heck out of the country, but you also have to maintain that border. My opponent is on record, in his own words, talking about open borders, Matter of fact, he wants to give them driver's license, and he also wants to give them Medicare when they get here. I mean, you want to talk about two stark differences, this may be that issue. Well, there's a whole bunch, but this is a big one, because we have got to continue to secure the border, get the illegal criminals who are committing crimes out of the country to keep communities safe.

Moderator ▶ 18:19

- Congressman, that is your time. Thank you so much. Dr. El-Sayed, same question for you. What changes, if any, would you make to current immigration and border policies, and how would you balance enforcement, legal immigration, and asylum claims? -

Abdul El-Sayed ▶ 18:31

So let's be clear. We've got to keep the border secure, all of our borders secure.

Mike Rogers ▶ 18:36

- That's new.

Moderator ▶ 19:35

Thank you so much. Congressman Rogers, you now have 30 seconds for rebuttal.

Moderator ▶ 20:08

That is your time, Congressman. Dr. El-Sayed, you have 30 seconds for rebuttal.

Abdul El-Sayed ▶ 20:12

I'm sure somebody at home is one MAGA bingo right now because it's all the buzzwords because he does not want to actually talk about substance, does not want to own his own record. Literally voted. to defund border security. That is your record. You don't want to own it. You don't want to talk about it because you are embarrassed of it. And you are also embarrassed of the fact that you cannot win this race without Donald Trump coming here and stumping for you. That's why you begged him to come. This is what you're going to get. Donald Trump policies. If you like the way things have been for the last two years, this is what he wants. It's not working for any of us. This kind of chaos just doesn't work.

Moderator ▶ 20:43

Thank you both. Gentlemen, Chuck, you have the next question. Thank you, Carolyn. This next question, we're going to turn to a completely different topic, but it's certainly one we've been getting just dozens of letters on, health care. Health care costs in America continue to rise, outpacing U.S. inflation and placing a growing burden on individuals and families. If elected, would you work to expand, modify, or roll back policies of the Affordable Care Act? And please be very specific. Dr. El-Sayed, you begin.

Abdul El-Sayed ▶ 21:18

I think as everybody knows by now, money out of politics, money or pocket and Medicare for all. That's building on the incredible success of the Affordable Care Act, a bill, by the way, that my opponent absolutely voted against. That, and I think we need to be serious about prescription drug prices. Look, my background is in getting people health care. I rebuilt Detroit's health department, led Wayne County's Department of Health, Human and Veterans Services. We led a health insurance program that provided small businesses high-quality health insurance. We expanded access to prescription drugs for seniors. That is the work I know. It's also the work that we need to take to the United States Senate. We cannot afford to have a United States Senator who is in bed with Big Pharma. took a million dollars to run his previous campaigns, voted 19 times to keep prescription drug prices high. That ad you've seen of him standing in front of Canada and talking about how much more expensive prescription drug prices are here, he literally voted four times against you being able to buy prescription drug prices in Canada. I know he's about to deny it, but that's his record and he probably should own up to you.

Moderator ▶ 22:18

All right, very good. Just clarification. expanding the fourth order. All right. Congressman, you now have one minute.

Mike Rogers ▶ 22:24

Yeah, this is absolutely rich to me. This is, again, this pattern of deception that this candidate has done for the last 18 months. So he was for all, Medicare for all, And by the way, which takes away your private health insurance. Five million Michiganders will lose their health care and it will destroy Medicare for seniors. That's what he's talking about. And that's why UAW for Rogers are here. That's why they're coming to our campaign. People understand just how ridiculous this is. There are other Democrats that will not support this plan because it's outrageously expensive. It would be about $7 trillion a year in new expenses, about $20,000 per family. in new taxes. And oh, by the way, you have to go back in the line of the government. That's what he's proposing. So all of this other nonsense that he's talking about is absolutely not true. We just called to make sure that more drugs are into the pot of drugs that you can get, that you don't have to worry about going to Canada to get them and paying American prices.

Moderator ▶ 23:29

All right. And clarification, not expanding.

Mike Rogers ▶ 23:31

Correct. Oh, I think it needs reform.

Moderator ▶ 23:34

Okay, very good. Dr. El-Sayed, your 30-second rebuttal.

Moderator ▶ 24:09

All right. Thank you. Congressman, your rebuttal, 30 seconds, please.

Mike Rogers ▶ 24:12

Ridiculously outrageous. The guy, the FBI guy, the military guy is going to do that. I actually put in $150 million to make sure our 9-11 heroes are taken care of. That was back then. I left Congress in 2014. So I know they've plussed up that pot. But what he says, listen, you have to understand, he is saying things like it means it, like it's factual. It's not. It is not even close. He'll keep repeating it. He'll keep saying this is about Donald Trump. This is really about America. And who believes that America is going to be a better place with me as senator?

Moderator ▶ 24:48

Thank you very much. Alicia? Our next topic is on Social Security. Congressman Rogers, we'll begin with you. Social Security's Retirement Trust Fund. is projected to be depleted in 2032. If Congress does not act, beneficiaries could face automatic reductions in future payments. What specific changes, if any, would you support to strengthen Social Security's finances and ensure its long-term stability? Congressman, you have 60 seconds.

Mike Rogers ▶ 25:15

This is such an important issue for so many people. And I think a lot of people don't realize that by law there would be a cut in 2032. My family is on Social Security. I have a brother on disability. My in-laws are on Social Security. It's an important part of their financial picture as they go forward. We must fix this. I think the best way to do this is put people in a room. It's got to be bipartisan to get it done. The first thing I would do is go after this $500 billion, half a trillion dollars in fraud that just came out in the congressional committee's that they haven't got to yet. If we're going to solve these problems for Social Security and Medicare, by the way, it's also going to get a cut. We have to get rid of the fraud that's built into the system. As a former cybersecurity guy for the last decade, I can tell you there are a lot of things that we can do to make sure that we get fraud out of the system. That's a $500 billion shot, which is a long way. Get a bipartisan solution on what we do make sure that Social Security is there for the future.

Moderator ▶ 26:22

I'll repeat the question for you, Dr. El-Sayed. What specific changes, if any, would you support to strengthen Social Security's finances and ensure its long-term stability? Dr. El-Sayed, you have 60 seconds.

Abdul El-Sayed ▶ 26:33

I think the answer is very easy and really quite simple. I think we need to scrap the cap, meaning the cap that makes sure that rich people like Mike don't have to pay their fair share into the program. I think we need to get rid of that so that the rich pay their fair share and the program becomes sustainable. I also think it's crazy that we tax Social Security. I mean, that's ridiculous. It's basically a tax. You pay into the system. The idea that you get taxed on the back end is a problem, and it's made it very difficult for seniors to survive. But I want you to pay attention to a word he just said. said, which is cut and fraud. You know, they're coming for a program just like he has come for the program when they start talking about fraud. Cause what happens is they run their audits and then they say there's so much fraud in it and then they privatize it, which Mike is on record as saying he wanted to do. I also said he wanted to raise the retirement age to 67. I'm so sorry, but you don't work this hard to be told that you got to work two more years. You don't work this hard to give your money to wall street like he wants to do. So be careful when they start talking about fraud because it means that they're going to cut the program right out from underneath you.

Moderator ▶ 27:34

Thank you, Dr. El-Sayed. 30-second first rebuttal for Congressman Rogers.

Moderator ▶ 28:41

Thank you very much, gentlemen. Carolyn? All right, thank you so much, Alicia. Now let's turn to public safety, shall we? Dr. El-Sayed, what federal laws or funding priorities would you pursue in the Senate to make Michigan communities safer?

Abdul El-Sayed ▶ 28:55

We all want to get home safe at night. That's true if you're a member of the community. It's true if you're law enforcement. I believe that we need to fund the police when it comes to retirement, retention, recruitment. I believe that we also need to fund the things that Donald Trump and Mike Rogers have backed to defunding, things like behavioral health response, things like community violence intervention. I also think that we need to make sure that we have invested in the means of public safety across our communities by making sure that folks who have been in the system get full access to good education so they don't wind themselves back into the system. Now, Mike's going to talk a good game about his law enforcement bona fides. But here's the thing I want you to remember. And he's, again, not going to own it. It's his record, though. He voted while he was in Congress against funding that would have invested in Michigan State Police, would have invested millions in Michigan State Police. That's his record. Mine, working alongside law enforcement, improving the operations of our medical examiner's office to improve time on scene.

Moderator ▶ 29:59

Thank you so much. Congressman Rogers, same question for you. What federal laws or funding priorities would you pursue in the Senate to make Michigan communities safer?

Mike Rogers ▶ 30:09

yeah so as a law enforcement folks who actually worked the street uh in the fbi may one of the things that we can do there's a memphis project where they infused several of the different federal agencies to work with locals to go after guns uh gang crime and it's made a tremendous difference i think that would be a huge asset here in the state The fact that we would vote against something that would fund the state police. I mean, this guy has got new false information about every 30 seconds. I will tell you this. He did call for defunding the police. And how we found it is he deleted all of this material. Why would you do that? Why would you go through and take all of that time to delete all of the material? X videos, comments, podcasts. Why? Because he was passionate about defunding the police. As a matter of fact, he asked the new brother, Muslim Brotherhood, excuse me, head Morrissey in Egypt to defund the police there, too. I mean, it's unbelievable.

Abdul El-Sayed ▶ 31:14

Let's actually just talk about this. Let's talk about this. He keeps raising this question about this association with an organization I've never been a part of. Because my mom, who's a nurse in Missouri, it doesn't make any sense. And it's actually really quite beneath you, Mike. It's really quite beneath you. To call into question my loyalty to the Constitution, I'm talking. I'm talking. I'm talking. Excuse me.

Moderator ▶ 31:37

Yeah, go ahead.

Abdul El-Sayed ▶ 31:38

Can I have a few more seconds?

Moderator ▶ 31:40

Yes, go ahead.

Abdul El-Sayed ▶ 31:41

Thank you. To bring in a question, my commitment to the Constitution is really beneath you. I am proud of America. I'm proud to be an American. I'm proud of our Constitution that guarantees all of us the right to pray as we choose to pray. And the question that you would ask that I think is actually really quite shameful as somebody who's actually served under that Constitution. It is shameful.

Moderator ▶ 32:02

Congressman Rogers, you now have 30 seconds for rebuttal.

Mike Rogers ▶ 32:04

You know, I wore the uniform of the United States proudly, as my son did, my wife served, my brother served, my father served, so you could pray any way you want. And I know you want to make this about you being a victim. This is about an ideology, an ideology that's banned in five Muslim countries, an ideology that's banned in another six different countries, an ideology that is very concerning to law enforcement in the United States because they use it for funding overseas operations. That's the difference.

Moderator ▶ 32:34

Congressman Rogers, that is your time. Chuck, you have the next question. Thank you, Carolyn. Gentlemen, let's turn our attention to another very important issue, artificial intelligence. for better or worse the vast majority of our electronic devices contains some degree of artificial intelligence congress has the constitutional power to regulate ai are you in favor of exercising that power on a federal level should it be up to the individual states or should government not interfere with this growing technology congressman rogers You have one minute.

Mike Rogers ▶ 33:13

Yeah. So again, I've been in the cybersecurity business for the last decade. AI is a real concern. And we've seen where some of these algorithms have escaped out of their sandbox and done some real damage to companies. I support the national security framework for AI to make sure that there's some oversight on how these companies are developing AI that they would have the opportunity to control, including an up-to, maybe even a kill switch, to make sure these things don't go wrong on you. The other part of this, there's kind of a thin bill I'd like to be a part of when I get there that would allow antitrust exemption for companies to work together on safety. I mean, this is such a huge issue. We need to make sure these companies are cooperating on the safety of AI, nothing else. So it has to be a narrow band. I think if you do both of those, we'd have a really good chance to making sure we can still stay competitive, but keep it safe.

Moderator ▶ 34:15

- Thank you, Congressman. I'll repeat the gist of the question for you, Dr. El-Sayed. Are you in favor of exercising the power that you would have if elected to the US Senate Would you like to do it on a federal level? Should it be up to the individual states? Or should government not interfere with this growing technology?

Abdul El-Sayed ▶ 34:35

We absolutely need federal leadership on this question. Right now, AI is an existential risk. Just to explain this, if you've ever seen the movie Fantasia, where all of a sudden the broomsticks start making other broomsticks, that's what we're talking about. It's called recursive self-improvement. And we are on the cusp of getting there. We need a pause on frontier research. We also need to address the fact that we don't have the regulatory infrastructure in the government to oversee the development of AI. We also need to address the fact that even the CEOs of these corporations think. They could take 50% of the white collar jobs over the next five to 10 years. So we need to make sure that we have AI under democracy, meaning that there's going to be democratically appointed folks on the boards of these AI corporations. There also should be AI no-goes. AI should not be able to fire you, shouldn't be able to fire a weapon, shouldn't be able to deny you health insurance. I just want to be clear. People like him are invested in the AI industry as it stands, and so they are not going to stand up to it. In fact, they're spending to support him in this campaign.

Moderator ▶ 35:34

All right. Congressman Rogers, your rebuttal, 30 seconds.

Moderator ▶ 36:12

Thank you, Congressman. Dr. El-Sayed, you have 30 seconds.

Moderator ▶ 36:45

Thank you very much, gentlemen. Alicia, you now have the next question. We're going to jump to Michigan jobs and the auto industry. Dr. El-Sayed, Michigan's auto industry faces pressure from tariffs, changing fuel economy rules, and global competition. What is the most important federal policy you would pursue to protect Michigan auto jobs and keep the state competitive? Dr. El-Sayed, you have 60 seconds.

Abdul El-Sayed ▶ 37:12

Well, we just saw GM do the biggest stock buyback in automotive history. That's personal to me. My dad came to this country to design and build cars. He worked for GM. He told me in 1996 that if a car company is more interested in its short-term finances than it's interested in its engineers and its workers, it's not going to be a car company very long. 2008 rolls around and we all know that GM had to take a bailout. That's all... that enables or comes from the enablement of corporations paying off politicians to look the other way on exactly that. I want to ban stock buybacks. While we're at it, I want us to continue to be the world's leader in internal combustion engine research and manufacture. We've got to be the world's leaders. My dad came here to build. But we also can't see the future of auto to China. So I think we need to say, what would happen if we decided to throw the gauntlet down and build a 300-mile range, $25,000 EV, We tariffed around EVs, we invested in that, and then we could continue to win both the future of internal combustion and EVs.

Moderator ▶ 38:14

Thank you, Dr. El-Sayed. Congressman Rogers, I'll pose the question to you again. What is the most important federal policy that you would pursue to protect Michigan auto jobs? and keep the state competitive, 60 seconds. -

Mike Rogers ▶ 38:26

Yeah, the very first thing we have to do is ban the ability for the Chinese to build cars in the United States. That is the single number one existential threat to our automobile industry here. Remember, China doesn't come here to make profits, they come here to steal market share. And so when they talk about showing up or they build them in Canada and trying to try to talk to them about coming across the bridge, we need to stop that at the border. And we need to make sure that it is very clear in the law that those Chinese cars can't be built right here in the United States.

Moderator ▶ 39:02

Thank you, Congressman Rogers. 30 seconds rebuttal for you, Dr. El-Sayed.

Abdul El-Sayed ▶ 39:05

It's funny because the person who's inviting them to come and build the United States is his favorite president, the guy he's campaigning with on Sunday. So I'm just trying to figure out how this is going to go. Donald Trump's going to help him get into the United States Senate, and then he's going to turn around and stand up to Trump because, you know, we've got a real history of Republican Senator standing up to Donald Trump right now. I don't see it happening. So he's going to talk a good game like he usually does, but he's going to bend to Donald Trump because he is a sock puppet for the man. The only reason he's running, of course, is because Trump called him and asked him to do it.

Moderator ▶ 39:38

Congressman Rogers, 30 seconds rebuttal for you.

Mike Rogers ▶ 39:40

You know, again, he wants to make this about Donald Trump. The bingo game ought to be how many times can he put the word Trump in any answer, any answer that he has given in the last whatever, 30 minutes. It's ridiculous. This is really about the best way forward for Michigan. I'm the only guy that can go back. Just like we did on the Gordie Howe Bridge, they said no, I got in there, we got it open. Just like the FEMA money for up north when the administration and the governor's office were fighting about it, I got that fixed. You want somebody can actually accomplish what's good for Michigan. And I'll be for good.

Moderator ▶ 40:14

We're going to be moving on. Thank you, Carolyn. Thank you so much, Alicia. We're going to talk about something that a lot of people here in Michigan are worried about, and that's education. Congressman Rogers, Michigan ranks 44th in the nation in fourth grade reading and just 25% of our fourth graders scored at or above proficient on the 2024 National Assessment of Educational Progress. What would you do in the U.S. Senate to improve reading and math achievement and expand educational opportunity for Michigan students?

Mike Rogers ▶ 40:45

This is really what got my wife, us, and I into this game for running for the United States Senate. If you can't read in the fourth grade by the fourth grade, you have a 70% chance of being on welfare or going to prison, 70. Two-thirds of Michigan fourth graders cannot read in the fourth grade. That is unacceptable. I argue it's criminal. You've just put them on a path to poverty. So I'm going to use Title I money. We're going to have reading reclamation program between third and fourth grade. It's phonics-based to get those kids back reading. And we also have a program. My wife and I are very big into Beyond Basics. It's a not-for-profit here. been doing work for for literacy for a long time to make sure that older kids also have the opportunity to reclaim their reading you can do it in four to 16 weeks depending on where your reading level is it's absolutely doable and if we don't do it we're going to lose and it's going to be bad for all of us and i also want to put shop back in schools and get kids connected to skilled trades as well

Moderator ▶ 41:47

congressman that's your time thank you so much Dr. El-Sayed, same thing to you. Michigan ranks 44th in the nation in fourth grade reading and just 25% of our fourth graders scored at or above proficient on the 2024 National Assessment of Educational Progress. What would you do in the U.S. Senate to improve reading and math achievement and expand educational opportunity for Michigan students?

Abdul El-Sayed ▶ 42:10

You know, it's a shame. I walked into Spain Elementary in Midtown Detroit in 2016. It was the middle of winter. I saw first graders bundled up in their coats trying to learn how to read with icicles coming off the roof because the boiler in the building broke literally two weeks ago, but they had to call them back in because they're out of days that they could keep them out. We built a program to provide every one of those kids a free pair of glasses. We had that school inspected for any of the public health issues that we could have found When the flood water crisis hit, I had every school, daycare, and Head Start tested for lead in the water. But this is a funding issue. It's a funding issue that's been created by the disastrous policies of folks like Mike for a very long time. In 1999, he architected the legislation that ushered in what ultimately would become emergency management, under which Detroit public schools were then operating. That's exactly the kind of failed leadership that's led us to this crisis in the first place. We need to fund the Department of Education. In fact, I think we need to tie bar the funding to the Department of Defense. Defense. I think we need to be invested in schools rather than defunding schools like we've seen here.

Moderator ▶ 43:14

Congressman Rogers, you now have 30 seconds for a rebuttal.

Moderator ▶ 43:46

That is your time, Congressman. Thank you. You have 30 seconds for a rebuttal, Dr. El-Sayed.

Abdul El-Sayed ▶ 43:52

Yeah. Look, at the end of the day, the question is ultimately who's got stake in the game? I think about the quality of schools every day. I think with Mike, you look at where he sits. Dude's moving to Florida in November. He just took his house off the market. And yes, I am going to blame Donald Trump because this is Donald Trump's economy. We are living in it. We're paying more for gas, more for groceries, defunding the Department of Education. Can you look in that camera and say that Donald Trump should fund the Department of Education? Can you maybe tell him not to come here if you disagree with his policies? He won't.

Mike Rogers ▶ 44:25

I'm happy to answer all of those questions.

Moderator ▶ 44:27

That is your time. Thank you, Dr. El-Sayed. Thank you, Congressman. Alicia, you have the next. Chuck, you have the next question. That's all right. Thank you very much. Let's now turn our attention to something that we hope everyone does in a few days, and that's voting and a key aspect of the SAVE Act. If elected, you may be asked to vote on legislation requiring voter identification and other key changes to federal election laws. Would you support or oppose that legislation and why? Dr. El-Sayed, we begin with you.

Abdul El-Sayed ▶ 44:54

Let's be clear, this is about voter suppression. You know, the SAVE Act would require women who change their names to go back and find their birth certificates just to be able to vote in our election. I mean, I think that's pretty crazy. And you pile that on to the voter suppression tactics we've seen out of the Supreme Court, backed by Donald Trump, backed by Mike Rogers. In fact, Mike Rogers was caught. on a hot mic talking about how he wanted to make sure that there were retired cops who could intimidate voters in the city of Detroit. I couldn't believe it when I heard it because that sounds like something you'd be hearing from someone in the south like 60 years ago, not a politician running here in Michigan who's claiming that, you know, he's talking to folks in the city of Detroit because I'll tell you folks in the city of Detroit are sick and tired of watching politicians deny the outcomes of elections just like Mike has, just like Donald Trump has. We deserve the right to vote. Nobody should take that away from you. People have fought and died for that right. I, for one, believe in democracy and will abide by the outcomes of this election. He's questioned the outcomes of the last election in the first place.

Moderator ▶ 46:01

All right, time. Congressman, I'll repeat the question. If elected, you may be asked to vote on legislation requiring voter identification and other key changes to federal election laws. Would you support or oppose that legislation? And why.

Mike Rogers ▶ 46:13

Yeah, I think it's very reasonable and rational to ask for a voter ID. So my opponent again calls for open borders. wants to give illegals driver's license and then avail them to all of the services of the United States of America. And by the way, it's easy to work your way into a system. Show an ID to vote, I think is absolutely imperative. It won't do anything and it builds confidence in our elections, is what you want. And secondly, think about this. There are so many Democrats who are coming out today and saying they can't vote for Abdul El-Sayed because he's too extreme. The former chairman of the Democrat Party has come out and said, "Can't vote for El-Sayed. He is too extreme." The finance chairman of Alyssa Slotkin, our current senator, came out and said, "I can't vote for El-Sayed." If you start thinking about Democrats for Rogers and elected officials around the state saying too extreme, can't do it. This to me is exactly the kind of thing he does. He's really good on his feet. He's not so good when it comes to policy.

Moderator ▶ 47:19

Thank you very much. I know you're passionate, but we have to follow the rules here. Dr. El-Sayed, your 30 seconds, please.

Abdul El-Sayed ▶ 47:26

You know, it's sad to me. I told you at the outset he was going to make this about Maga Bingo, all of the different buzzwords. At this point, I think everybody playing has already won. Prize for everybody. But here's the thing. When you're winning Maga Bingo, we're all losing because I told you every time that they're trying to distract you, they are picking your pocket. You got a corporate politician who wants to turn around and do corporate things. I mean, we just got note he was flying around on private jets to get his BMW or somebody's BMW fixed. I I haven't been on a private jet. I don't know about you all.

Moderator ▶ 47:58

All right. That's your time. Your rebuttal, Congressman Rogers?

Mike Rogers ▶ 48:00

I mean, this guy is so ridiculous. This is exactly why the biggest coalition we have is Democrats for Rogers. We're doing well with African-Americans in the city of Detroit, in Pontiac, in and Flint. We're doing exceptionally well with Jewish Democrats who are literally afraid. I've talked to ones with tears in their eyes about the future of their kids and grandkids because of the anger and division that he is laying out on the street. This is really, really important that you listen to the people who are not going to support.

Moderator ▶ 48:36

Lisa, your question next. Our next question will be for Congressman Rogers. We'll start with you about political independence. At a time when the country is deeply divided politically, what is one policy proposed by your opponent's party that you could see yourself supporting?

Mike Rogers ▶ 48:54

Yeah, I've seen some housing bills and I'd like to be there to work with them to try to get them in a little better shape. But for affordable housing, we have a huge need in affordable housing in cities like Detroit and Pontiac and Flint and Benton Harbor. And there's other places around the state that it will be in need as well. I'd love to work with them on that. I have a housing plan to get younger Michiganders into homes. Right now, the current first-time homebuyer in Michigan is 40 years old. It's ridiculous. So I have a plan to actually build in some lots in the city of Detroit by encouraging investment by builders, bringing the community together, also working with the city council. I've had great conversations with the Detroit City Council, how we can work together on getting those housing needs met and spurring development and housing builds in the city of Detroit and other places as well.

Moderator ▶ 49:49

Congressman Rogers, thank you. I'll repeat the question for you, Dr. Elsayed. At a time when the country is deeply divided politically, what's one policy proposed by your opponent's party that you could see yourself supporting? 60 seconds.

Abdul El-Sayed ▶ 50:03

Look, I come out of municipal government. That means you got to work with everybody to get something done. I was proud to get to work with all kinds of folks, both in Wayne County and in the city of Detroit, to eliminate medical debt, put glasses on kids, take on corporate polluters. I'll work with anyone and everyone when it comes to getting money out of politics, putting money in your pocket, and passing Medicare for all. I want to talk to two issues. Number one, I actually believe that there are tariffs that make sense. Donald Trump's tariffs don't make any sense. But there's a version of tariffs that really could be hooked to a industrial policy that makes sense, where you're tariffing in a way that actually could help us build the job creation opportunities of the future. The other one is on corporate speculation. You know, Donald Trump, even though he's a broken clock, he's right twice a day. And when it comes to corporate speculation on housing, I think that's wrong. And I actually agree that we got to do something about it. So there's two issues that I'm looking forward to finding Republicans who are willing to work with me on so that we can get money out of politics, put money in your pocket, pass Medicare for all.

Moderator ▶ 51:02

Dr. El-Sayed, thank you. Congressman Rogers, 30 seconds for rebuttal.

Mike Rogers ▶ 51:05

So think of all of the three things he just talked about. Putting money in your pockets, it's a great slogan. There's nothing behind it. Matter of fact, when his new Democrat-Socialist-aligned policies are engaged, money in your pocket, you'll be lucky to have a damn pair of pants when you're done. Medicare for all. He doesn't tell you how much taxes you have to get charged and you lose your private health insurance. These aren't real solutions. These are solutions that are going to make your life more miserable and it's going to take away your choices in healthcare.

Moderator ▶ 51:37

Congressman Rogers, thank you. Dr. Elsayed, 30 seconds rebuttal.

Moderator ▶ 52:13

Thank you, Dr. El-Sayed. Carolyn? Okay, we are almost out of time, gentlemen, so we do have a few rapid-fire questions for you. We just need a yes or no answer on this. Congressman Rogers, are you in favor of expanding the U.S. Supreme Court, yes or no?

Mike Rogers ▶ 52:27

No.

Moderator ▶ 52:27

dr el sayed same question to you are you in favor of expanding the u.s supreme court yes or no

Abdul El-Sayed ▶ 52:35

yes but fairly

Moderator ▶ 52:37

pretty good uh same rapid fire question question number two do you support universal background checks for gun purchases dr elsa

Abdul El-Sayed ▶ 52:46

yes

Moderator ▶ 52:46

congressman

Mike Rogers ▶ 52:47

it all depends It all depends.

Moderator ▶ 52:49

Yes or no? Yes or no is all we have time for.

Abdul El-Sayed ▶ 52:53

It's not hard.

Mike Rogers ▶ 52:54

In the middle. In the middle. There's different cases for that.

Abdul El-Sayed ▶ 52:57

So dependable.

Mike Rogers ▶ 52:58

You want to ban the second amendment? Why don't you talk about that?

Moderator ▶ 53:02

Okay, guys.

Abdul El-Sayed ▶ 53:03

There's a big difference.

Moderator ▶ 53:04

Gentlemen, we've got to protect your closing statements. All right. It's now time for closing statements. And as we decided before, Congressman Rogers, you go first.

Moderator ▶ 54:48

Thank you, Congressman. Dr. El-Sayed, your 92nd closing statement.

Moderator ▶ 56:19

Well, we want to thank Congressman Rogers and Dr. El-Sayed for being here and coming to Channel 7 and getting through all of these issues that matter a lot to Michiganders. We certainly appreciate you and we want to thank everyone at home for watching as well. And I agree. We thank you very much for coming. You can find this debate in its entirety at WXYZ.com and it will also be on our live 24/7 stream. And of course, we want to hear from voters about what they thought about this debate, the feedback they're going to give us. And we're going to have reaction from voters for you tonight on 7 News Detroit at 10 and 11. And everybody, do not forget, Election Day is November 3rd. Both of these gentlemen want you to come out and vote. Polls are open at 7 a.m. They will close at 8 p.m. your voice will not matter unless you vote again thank you all for watching tonight gentlemen thank you for being here for this wonderful debate have a good night everybody good night